PETER JANES (PETER HORGAN)

[Daddy-o]

PETER JANES

Since not everyone has read Cat Stevens - The Complete Illustrated Biography & Discography, I wondered if Majicat members would like to read the interview with Peter that appears in the book? I met Peter (Janes) Horgan by way of The Tapestry of Delights, a book/website devoted to 60s psychedelic and beat music. Peter very kindly spared me some time and the interview with him is quite unique. Peter worked with Steve Georgiou right from the outset. Although he is often referenced historically, very little has been detailed about his time spent with erstwhile Cat, as a friend and musical colleague. I wrote the following draft for a magazine article, entitled Diggin' For Gold, about his two rare 60s discs, if Christine agrees and people would like to read the piece in the book with some rare pictures...

Peter Horgan was born in Canada and was bought to the UK at the age of two and grew up in Chingford, Essex. He met Steve Georgiou, aka Cat Stevens in 1963, or thereabouts, and began singing with him. Both Peter and “Steve” grew very excited by the vibrant pop and folk scene in London at the time. They bought records by; Bob Dylan, Jimmy Reed, The Miracles, Ike & Tina Turner, Leadbelly etc. and both thought Nina Simone was the greatest. Peter played around the folk circuit, at Les Cousins and Bunjies, and both secured record contracts. Cat, on the progressive new Deram label and Peter, a little later, with CBS. Cat Stevens received international acclaim, but sadly Peter did not receive the recognition he deserved. Peter was well respected by people like Al Stewart and Sandy Denny, the latter never did get to record his song ‘Twilight’. John Baldry, was someone Peter had a great deal of admiration for, as one of our greatest R&B singers. Peter once provided harmonica for him at an Eel Pie Island gig. It was the late great Baldry who encouraged Peter and the young Cat/Steve to get up and sing on stage. Peter sang alongside such luminaries as Paul Simon, Bert Jansch, Al Stewart, and incredibly, a fledgling Marc Bolan and the folk legend Jackson C. Frank. Of the latter, Peter said “He was a truly amazing talent and great guy, a Jack Kerouac character who resembled Colonel Custer”. Peter once played live on Greek TV to a viewing audience of 2,000,000 people, with Vangelis and Demis Roussos.

Peter James Horgan, as Peter Janes, released two fine singles on CBS – both produced by his old friend Cat Stevens. The name Janes had come about when Peter dropped Horgan and used his middle name, which got misspelt on an acetate! This error crept onto the official release.

Both Peter Janes’ single releases feature original songs and were published by Dick James, the Beatles’ publisher; Emperors And Armies/Go Home Ulla (CBS 203004, in picture sleeve – November 1967) and Do You Believe (Love Is Built On A Dream)/For The Sake Of Time (CBS 3299 – February 1968). Both are highly collectable in folk/beat/psych circles, ‘Do You Believe’, in particular, is elusive and changes hands for £20 upwards, if you can find a copy! ‘Go Home Ulla’, the B-side, is available on the now deleted ’98 CD compilation, Circus Days Vol 4 & 5 – UK Psychedelic Obscurities 1967-72 (Bam Caruso BAMVP1003CD).

Peter recently gave an interesting account of the releases. Cat Stevens and Peter had met through their elder brothers, who worked in the “rag trade” in the West End of London. Peter and the former Cat got talking about Dylan, Guthrie and as Steve had a Leadbelly songbook, their connection with folk and blues kicked off a great relationship. At the time, Cat had only been playing a few months and Peter taught him the basic 12-bar. Peter still remembers two early numbers by Cat – one called ‘Mighty Peace’ from ’66, which he said was a knockout and an even earlier and impressive ‘Everything’s Piling On’, both unreleased and vaporised in time.

Peter’s first single ‘Emperors And Armies’ was recorded at Olympic Studios in Barnes, overseen by Cat Stevens at the controls. Peter wasn’t terribly impressed by the musicians on the session, whom he said were more like taxi drivers than musicians and it ended up a little over produced. They just wanted to read the score and take the money and run. Peter was recovering from tonsillitis at the time and in spite of this, the vocals sound strong. There’s no denying the quality of the composition, Peter described it as being about a child’s daydream. Its B-side, ‘Go Home Ulla’, was written about a young lady called Ulla Carllson, who at the time was going out with Al Stewart. It’s a great wistful lyric and melody, which Peter and Cat had worked on for a several months.

Peter’s second single coincided with Cat becoming ill with tuberculosis. The rapid rise to fame for him had a detrimental effect on his health – Peter visited his friend in hospital and Cat gave him a Moody Blues album, ‘Day’s Of Future Passed’. Peter was enchanted by the classical style on the album and particularly by the use of the mellotron. He wanted his second single to have a mellotron on it too. ‘Do You Believe (Love Is Built On A Dream) has great electric guitar – the demo of which was engineered by Caleb Quaye. The backing on the second single had more integrity, provided by a young South African band. Peter played acoustic and Cat also obliged with guitar and mellotron. Peter couldn’t recall the name of the electric guitarist but remembered asking him to throw in some “fuzz” after the middle 8 and a snip of the 1812 Overture! Cat sang on it too, right at the end of the song Peter repeats the line ‘Do You Believe, Do You Believe’ twice and goes up to the harmony and Cat Stevens seamlessly and very subtly takes over. The B-side, ‘For The Sake Of Time’ should not be overlooked, a great song. Although the 45 had encouraging reviews and air play, like its predecessor, it made little impression on the UK chart.

These two overlooked pop gems are the only releases available by Peter Janes. A further recording by Peter, a Cat Stevens song called ‘The Rain Is Coming’ and a B-side, “A strange kind of choral affair with lots of vocal overdubs, psychedelic almost, called ‘A Thousand Times’” – with Cat on baby grand piano, lies in the can.

Peter Janes effectively left the music business after his second single in 1968. He continued to write and play live as Peter James. He’s now retired and lives a quieter life in Suffolk.

George Brown

[suncatcher]

george2 said:

PETER JANES

Since not everyone has read Cat Stevens - The Complete Illustrated Biography & Discography, I wondered if Majicat members would like to read the interview with Peter that appears in the book? . . . Peter worked with Steve Georgiou right from the outset. . . I wrote the following draft for a magazine article, entitled Diggin' For Gold, about his two rare 60s discs, if Christine agrees and people would like to read the piece in the book with some rare pictures....

George Brown

Hi, George!

What a welcome breath of fresh air! It's new and interesting to hear about Peter Horgan and this time in Steve's/Cat's life. I would LOVE to read the book excerpt and see the pictures.

I wonder if you might post it in "smallish" pieces that we can more easily comment on or ask questions about?

Thanks,

~Sun~

[Daddy-o]

Fine by me Sun, in segments, it's a fascinating account.

Best,

George

[Lucy13]

Nice of you to share this on the site, George.

Two questions:

1) a B-side, “A strange kind of choral affair with lots of vocal overdubs, psychedelic almost, called ‘A Thousand Times’” – was that really the title? LOL

2) In the last paragraph: "Peter Janes effectively left the music business after his second single in 1968. He continued to write and play live as Peter James." James - is that correct? Just double-checking!! (knowing how easily typos happen!!)

Thanks again, George!

(and it would be nice if Peter dropped by sometime... )

[Daddy-o]

[Daddy-o]

It would be great if Peter dropped by Lucy.

The song was called 'A Thousand Times'.

He did perform as Peter James and continued to work as a songwriter. James is Peter's middle name :-)

[Daddy-o]

The interview might deviate slightly from the text that appears in the book, as this is the first draft, hope you enjoy. Here's the first part...

I’m very grateful to Peter Horgan for granting the following interview, which took place between July and September 2002:

How did your music career start – what are your earliest recollections? How did you meet Steve Georgiou and are there any memories you can share?

I had no interest in pop music as a kid, in fact at school I was very into Dave Brubeck, MJQ (Modern Jazz Quartet) and Ray Charles (who I only knew as a piano player!) It all started for me with The Beatles. They just knocked me out – those harmonies! I bought a guitar and learned to play from song sheets. I had tried to play harmonica for a long time but I just couldn’t get those Blues sounds ‘til I went to see Little Walter at Eel Pie Island and realised that you play the thing by sucking in and not blowing!! It all changed from there with the harp! At some time in my early teens I heard Bob Dylan and he totally changed my life. Out went the electric guitar and in came the acoustic guitar and the finger picking.
(Note: Eel Pie Island was one of the first top music venues. It was located on the small island with the same name on the River Thames at Twickenham. During the ’50s and early ’60s the famous Hotel and Dance Hall was frequented by “Beatniks”. Initially, the music was jazz-orientated until ’63 with the arrival of R ’n B. A number of similar R ’n B venues sprang up in the surrounding South London suburbs and Soho and the West End.)
At about this time I met Steve. His brother worked in the "rag trade" in the West End of London and so did my eldest brother. Both must have mentioned that their younger brothers were musicians and suggested that we meet. Steve came round to my flat in Stoke Newington. I remember my initial reactions to Steve when I opened the front door. In retrospect, he resembled the "Naked Chef" Jamie Oliver! He was a rather awkward teenager and a little shy but he always had a way of wearing any old clothes and making them look really hip. Neither of us was really interested in meeting one another and we had been sort of pushed into it. Anyway, I was talking about Dylan and Guthrie and the rest and Steve was carrying a Leadbelly songbook so we had a connection in folk/blues. Steve had only been playing guitar for a few months and I think I taught him about the basic 12-bar.
Something that I admired about Steve from day one was that he would try anything on the guitar. It didn’t matter to him that he was not yet skilled enough to play the thing properly, he would do it anyway. It was obvious that in amongst the bum notes and buzzing noises, this guy was pointed in a direction that was totally his own. All those little licks that later came out on record played by violins and trumpets had started life on that tough old Hagistrom guitar. We got to know each other pretty quickly. We had common interests and attitudes and an anarchic sense of humour that sort of welded us together. It was us against the world it seemed, in a humorous way. Nothing was ever taken very seriously, except music. We could really wind people up. We sat all afternoon, one hot summer day, up on the balcony of his flat in the West End with the Grundig tape recorder on "amplifier mode". Steve would shout "OI YOU!" into the mike and of course no one in the street below thought to look up! We sure generated some paranoia that day! Steve was writing some utterly stunning stuff but it took a while for me to really get started on writing songs.

[Lucy13]

george2 said:

The song was called 'A Thousand Times'.

He did perform as Peter James and continued to work as a songwriter.

OK, cool. Thanks!

[Lucy13]

"....It was obvious that in amongst the bum notes and buzzing noises, this guy was pointed in a direction that was totally his own...."

Prophetic.

[Daddy-o]

Hi Lucy... Shades of How Many Times here! 'A Thousand Times' may also have been called 'About A Million Times', I just checked my notes and it's rather interesting to say the least.

[suncatcher]

Hi, George!

Great stuff!

I love that Peter liked acoustic guitar, Dylan, Guthrie. I wish I could hear his two songs.

I checked out Jamie Oliver on Yahoo, and I don't see the resemblence to Cat, but maybe when they were young . . .

Thank you for explaining about Eel Pie Island. Is there really such a thing as eel pie?

Okay, another dumb question, "What is the "rag trade?" Is it the tabloids?

Here's some inspiration for Kristian's, Jacky's, and Gino's fans:

"Something that I admired about Steve from day one was that
he would try anything on the guitar. It didn’t matter to him
that he was not yet skilled enough to play the thing properly,
he would do it anyway."

I especially like the stuff about their senses of humor. I can easily hear Cat shouting, "OI, YOU," and see the two of then bent over, dying from laughter!

Love it!

~Sun~

[Daddy-o]

Peter's singles do occasionally turn up on eBay, especially Emperors. They are great songs. Eel Pie, as far, as I know is just a place and it's also possibly Pete Townshend's publishing company. The 'Oo played at Eel Pie Island in those great days. As a youngster, I grew up in the East End of London and a favourite dish was jellied eels. I can't say I ever weakened and some things are just not meant to be eaten!! The "rag trade" is the clothing/fashion industry.

I have a photo from the book that Cat took of Peter on the rooftop. I'll try and dig that out. Meanwhile here's a nice ol' pic from an old music paper:

[Daddy-o]

The chapter in the book that features Peter's interview is called Twilight. Interview continues:

Can you tell me about your folk club days in London?

One day in ’66 I wrote a song that would start me playing folk clubs, it was called ‘Twilight’. I was determined to play it at the best club of all so my guitar and I arrived the next Saturday at Les Cousins at 49 Greek Street in Soho. I asked if I could do a guest spot and the guy said, “Yes, what's your name?” So on the spur of the moment I dropped my surname and gave him my first and middle names only – that was the day "Peter James" was born! It was much later that Steve changed it to "Janes" without even telling me which, I must admit, really peeved me at the time.

It must have been an incredible time and you must have mixed with some great people. Were you and Cat a “duo” as such?

A lot of the articles in the papers at the time are unreliable as source material – funny people journalists, they listen to what you say then go away and write what they wish you had said!! Much was made of Steve and I as a folk duo later on but it never really took off in our time together. Mostly we spent our time more in writing than performing. We once went down to Cousins to see Long John Baldry who we both knew and liked and he got us up on stage. Steve and I did one thing together but it was a song that we really hadn’t finished, all based on harmonies. Then Steve did ‘Almighty Peace’ which he always said was his answer to my song ‘Twilight’. I followed with ‘Twilight’, which by then the audience knew well. I more or less lived at Cousins and Bunjies at that time.

(Note: Les Cousins’ Soho club was the most prestigious folk venue of the day, made famous by the likes of Bert Jansch and Al Stewart – Peter was a good friend of Al Stewart and Peter’s song “Go Home Ulla” was written about Stewart’s girlfriend Ulla. Bunjies was a tiny coffee-house basement in Litchfield Street which presented some amazing early “pre-fame” ’60s gigs by Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Davy Graham, Adam Faith and, much later, “new-wave” acts like Elvis Costello.)

Steve was always a little aloof when it came to my friends – possibly through shyness, I don’t really know. I think that Steve found it difficult to really trust people and I was quite aware that that is what made our relationship very special. I never tried to push people on him. Pity really, as I knew some pretty special people who Steve probably would have liked, people like Jackson C. Frank, Paul Simon and Bert Jansch. As a point of interest, Sandy Denny asked me on a number of occasions to write down the words of ‘Twilight’, as she wanted to sing it! Foolish as it seems now – I never got around to it! I realise now that it would have been on her first album. As it turns out ‘Twilight’ has never been recorded to this day – shame.

[Lucy13]

<------- "Did someone say EelPie? Yes, that's my publishing company." I love the logo: ep (sort of...)


Yeah... George, I can't imagine anyone feeling right about eating (or slurping down) eel pies.... Incidentally, I believe there's an eelpie eating scene in Quadrophenia, actually.

And the rag trade... I must admit I was always more apt to think of it as the newspaper/journalism trade myself... Glad to be reminded it's not! (couldn't it also have been called the "togs-trade"? )

[Lucy13]

george2 said:

The As a point of interest, Sandy Denny asked me on a number of occasions to write down the words of ‘Twilight’, as she wanted to sing it! Foolish as it seems now – I never got around to it! I realise now that it would have been on her first album. As it turns out ‘Twilight’ has never been recorded to this day – shame.

That really is a pity....

[Lucy13]

Oh, and meant to say, I LOVE the newspaper pic above!!

Nice of both of them.

ommmm......

[Daddy-o]

Your comments about the "Rag Trade" reminded me of a vintage comedy TV show here in the UK:

www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/articles/r/ragtradethe_7775315.shtml

But without digressing too much, here's the photo I mentioned. This was on the Moulin Rouge rooftop, circa '66. Taken by Peter's buddy Steven (Cat Stevens):

[Daddy-o]

You were on the scene at the outset of Cat/Steve’s career. Any recollections of those days and your career?

I did a lot of travelling that year so Steve and I didn’t see a lot of each other. I spent some time in Denmark where my kind of music was getting good audiences. I did the Vice-Versa House in Copenhagen etc. Then I spent the rest of ’66 in Athens. I played the Theatre Diana there on Christmas morning that year along with Vangelis and a whole lot of up-and-coming Greek talent. It went out on the radio – a hell of a show I thought! I left England just as ‘I Love My Dog’ was going up the charts. When I arrived back home in early ’67, Steve was at number two with ‘Matthew & Son’.

Did you guys know or meet Marc Bolan? I’d heard Marc say he started out playing at Cat’s restaurant but that was probably embellished by some of those journalists you mention!

Well, Steve knew him. I met him briefly in ’66. To be perfectly frank, I don’t think Steve was very impressed with him and nor was I! In all fairness, it was very early days and musicians develop over time. Who could not be impressed with what Bolan did much later?

(Note: Mike Hurst also discovered and produced Marc Bolan ('The Wizard' was Marc's first disc and also recorded at Decca 2) around the same time as 'I Love My Dog' - Mike had a great eye for talent! I think the story goes that Mike's business colleague, Jim Econimedes, didn't care for Cat much and put his energies into Marc's career. Mike successfully plugged the fledgling Cat. As Peter rightfully points out, Cat's second disc went straight to #2. Pipped at the post by those US moptops, The Monkees!)

[suncatcher]

george2 said:

The chapter in the book that features Peter's interview is called Twilight. Interview continues:

Can you tell me about your folk club days in London?

One day in ’66 I wrote a song that would start me playing folk clubs, it was called ‘Twilight’.

As it turns out ‘Twilight’ has never been recorded to this day – shame.

Nice title for the chapter, George! At least the song has been remembered in your book, albeit without the lyrics . . .

[suncatcher]

george2 said:

. . . on the spur of the moment I dropped my surname and gave him my first and middle names only – that was the day "Peter James" was born! It was much later that Steve changed it to "Janes" without even telling me which, I must admit, really peeved me at the time.

Ha! Ha!

I wonder if it was a mistake, or one of those practical jokes!

And I love all your pictures, George! I think Steve and Peter look like brothers.

What does "c/w" mean on the Emperors & Armies record cover?

Thanks, George.

~Sun~

[suncatcher]

BTW, I like your avatar.

[suncatcher]

george2 said:

As Peter rightfully points out, Cat's second disc went straight to #2. Pipped at the post by those US moptops, The Monkees!

I don't mean to digress too much, either, but this comment led me to check out some of The Monkees' lyrics. I think maybe they were influenced by Cat:

Gonna Buy Me A Dog
» The Monkees
By Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart

You know my girl just called me up
And she woke me from my sleep
You should have heard the things she said
You know she hurt my feelings deep.
I'm gonna buy me a dog
'Cause I need a friend now. [Say, you need all the friends you can get]
I'm gonna buy me a dog,
My girl, my girl, don't love me no how.

She used to bring me my newspaper
'Cause she knew where it was at.
She used to keep me so contented.
But I can teach a dog to do that.
I'm gonna buy me a dog,
'Cause I need a friend now
I'm gonna buy me a dog,
My girl, my girl, don't love me no how.


Source of Lyrics to The Monkees' Gonna Buy Me a Dog

[Daddy-o]

You could well be right Sun. Isn't 'Last Train to Clarksville' just a few notes away from The Beatles' 'She's A Woman' or 'Ticket To Ride'!? I'm not knocking The Monkees though. In spite of them being "manufactured" and basing their TV series on Help!/Hard Days Night, they are one of my favourite bands to this day. 'The Porpoise Song' is delightful. Glad you like the Avator :-) Anyway back to Peter's discs. c/w means "coupled with", i.e. the B-side... not country and western either, as I once thought it stood for... as a youth, you understand!!

[Daddy-o]

c/w...

[suncatcher]

Thank you again, George! Another mystery solved.

Great picture of the B side. I'm going to look up the lyrics to "The Porpoise Song."

Looking forward to the next excerpt . . .

~Sun~

[Daddy-o]

...Clicks, clacks
Riding the backs of giraffes for laughs is alright for a while
The ego sings of castles and kings and things
That go with a life of style...

[harmonie]

This is really good stuff. Thank you so much for posting Daddy-O. Seems it was such an interesting time to be in the music biz with everyone knowing each other and sharing ideas. It's all gone so corporate now.
So Cat's brother was in the rag trade? This is not exactly the fashion business, this I know. This is converting and re-selling discarded clothing (often times scavenged or bought in bulk from Good Will etc) to the commercial cloth industry. People who deal in this business are called rag men! It is a cheap business to start-up and you can make a pretty good buck. Well it looks like he went from rags to riches ;D

[catty]

lol@harmonie. cloths are pretty much cheap to make and import.The mark ups on them are pretty good as well.can make a decent living from it.

[Daddy-o]

Thanks harmonie, glad you're enjoying the material, no pun intended!

How many releases did you have? I’m only aware of: ‘People Say’ / ‘Stage Door’ and the two with Cat.

‘People Say’ / ‘Stage Door’ are nothing to do with me, some sort of error in books and on web-sites, I think. I have recorded countless stuff over the years and have collaborated with a number of people – last of whom was Les McKeown from The Bay City Rollers.
My single, ‘Emperors And Armies’ was recorded at the Olympic Studio in Barnes. Steve had just made an advert for Clarks shoes there. I was suffering badly with tonsillitis at the time (I went into hospital a few days later and had them out). I feel totally at home in studios but that was a very harrowing experience. Steve and I turned up only to be met by about twenty Musicians’ Union guys who were more like taxi drivers than musicians. They had no interest in the music at all and spent the whole time making philistine jokes about it all. All they wanted to do was read the score, play their bit and cop the money – which is why, when I recorded ‘Do You Believe’, we went into the studio with a great South African.

(Note: Cat’s first independent production work was on Peter’s first disc, ‘Emperors And Armies’. At the time, he was “being groomed for stardom” by Cat, who was using his own experience of his first year in the business to school Peter in the art of stagecraft and presentation. “I found myself in at the deep end and I don’t want to see the same thing happen to Peter,” said Cat. “As it happens, he seems to have a natural gift for holding the attention of the audience when he is singing and I want to develop this.” Peter described his composition as being “a child’s daydream” – from a CBS records press release October ’67. Regarding the aforementioned Clarks advert, a trawl through Clarks Shoe Museum archives could not unearth anything relating to this – though Cat did contribute his song ‘Tuesday’s Dead’ to their 1971 ad. campaign!)

Have a great weekend all.

[Chris]

george2 said:

You could well be right Sun. Isn't 'Last Train to Clarksville' just a few notes away from The Beatles' 'She's A Woman' or 'Ticket To Ride'!? I'm not knocking The Monkees though. In spite of them being "manufactured" and basing their TV series on Help!/Hard Days Night, they are one of my favourite bands to this day. 'The Porpoise Song' is delightful. Glad you like the Avator :-) Anyway back to Peter's discs. c/w means "coupled with", i.e. the B-side... not country and western either, as I once thought it stood for... as a youth, you understand!!

Wonderful thread, George.

I have Peters 'Emperors and Armies' 45 rpm and have always wondered what C/W meant. Thank you for setting it straight. ;)I find it really interesting reading about Cats early days from his friend and associate in the early music business. How exciting the mid-late 60's had to be for both Cat and Peter.