GQ magazine

[Aisha]

boneheadedwoman said:

Hi All!

Definitely, when we start talking about Palestinian/ Israeli relations, we're getting into a sticky area! But I think most reasonable people would agree, it's a good policy to treat all others with respect and dignity.

Jane, I can't agree more. And I am pleased that people have been able to talk on this thread without getting heated. I think that is cool because we get enlightened and enriched by hearing other opinions.

And Turan, I really don't know much about protocol when it comes to dealing with charities. I never knew there was so much to it until the Small Kindness fundraiser a few months ago. But when I give I can never be 100% sure that my money will go to where it is supposed to. There are so many middlemen involved, but I give and ask God to help the money get to its intended people.

Love,
A'isha

[Whisper]

Well I think I'm going off subject here, but I was just getting online & noticed a story on the Yahoo front page that said they were just returning Harry Potter books back onto bookshelves after they had all been pulled. I never even knew they had banned Harry Potter books in any schools. I knew some people didn't like them , but I never knew it had gone that far. So if a book like Harry Potter could set so many people in motion to have it banned. One might imagine how a book like Satanic Verses might cause an uproar. Personally I don't believe in book banning & I really did enjoy all the Harry Potter books & so did my kids. I guess I brought this up to more or less point out how quickly people can get stirred up overa book if they feel it threatens/insults their faith/belief system somehow.
I also did not agree with the death fatwa & actually thought those who issued it sold more books for the guy. My way of protesting the Satanic Verses was simply by not purchasing a copy of that book. I feel very strongly about book banning & don't believe in it.
whisper
oh yeah here's a link to the harry Potter story:
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030425/ap_on_en_ot/harry_potter_3

[Vivian]

Frankly, I DO believe Yusuf was singled out in Isreal! To me, that fact is obvious!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

Vivian, I hope he wasn't singled out, but it is possible if not for any reason but his high profile status. He is very famous. But it is a common thing over there to hold people in customs for a while. If you think Israel is bad, you should go to Japan. A friend of mine travels to Japan on occasion and she is always stuck in customs for hours and she is Japanese.

Whisper, I never could understand book banning. I have always figured that I didn't have to purchase a book and didn't have to check it out of the local library if I saw it there. I did read excerpts of "The Satanic Verses" a few years ago at the old UK site. I wouldn't have bought that book. It wasn't just insulting to Muslims, it insulted Christians and the USA was well. All of the excerpts I read had the f-word inserted into it so many times that I was automatically put off. I don't care for that word and rarely use it unless I am explosively angry.

Love,
A'isha

[Vivian]

Well, they didn't just hold him! They locked him in a cage with no water or bathroom facilities for over two hours! Sorry, but it just makes me angry when I see child molestors getting more respect!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

Viv, I didn't know they put him in a cage. I thought they put him in a room for four hours without toilet facilities or water. I hope you're mistaken because that is horrible. No human being should be subjected to such treatment.

But two years later Yusuf is carrying out his dream. He is helping children uninhibited. I am happy that he is able to do that. I know that he has tried so hard to get where he is today. And people's opinions have changed. Yes, you will have some who will never change their views about Yusuf, but you also have many who have accepted him again. I think all Yusuf really wants is to be able to take care of needy children. I think, now he is finally getting his wish granted and his prayers answered.

Love,
A'isha

[boneheadedwoman]

Book banning is definately a problem area for me! I've never understood it. Aisha, I agree with you: if a book is offensive, you don't have to buy it or read it. And you're right about all that sensationalism surrounding a book banning or (worst case senario) fatwa, just helps to sell more books! Regarding the Harry Potter books, I loved them all, and so did my kids. We can't wait to get our hands on the next one! Anyone whose faith is threatened by those books has a pretty shallow faith indeed! No one I know "believes" in witchcraft or wizardry for heaven's sake. It's just a great adventure story.

[Aisha]

My kid loves Harry Potter too. I can't see why they would ban that book. But I also didn't get it in school when they banned "Huckleberry Finn"....What was up with that?

There is a movie based on the life of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) called "The Message". I have it on video and love it. I can't see why they banned this movie from the US theaters, but they did. They claimed that the scene where the Meccans put the stone on the black slave, Bilal, was offensive to African-Americans. I didn't get it because Muhammad (saws) helped Bilal and this was a part of history. I see many movies on television which have more stuff about cruelty to African-Americans. If the story isn't putting them down, which "The Message" wasn't doing at all, I don't see why it should be banned.

Love,
A'isha

[Vivian]

Well maye cage was the wrong word! But the way Yusuf described it, it is almost the same thing! If I remember, his words were a tiny little room, with four other guys, no windows, no water, no bathrooms for at least two hours! Yusuf said the stench was almost unbearable! So, to me, that qualifys as a cage! And YES, no decent human being should be treated in such an inhumane manner!! And I am also so happy that Yusuf's dream of helping children is coming true!! We really need more angels like him!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

Ewe, poor Yusuf, locked in a small room with four guys in Israel. If I recall the event took place in July so all five guys were probably hot and sweaty too. I agree, no human should be subjected to that not even for an hour.

Yusuf has been through a lot for his love for children. I remember when the Serbian guards robbed him at the border and took $33,000. Yusuf sure does have endurance. I don't know if I would have stood by my guns as well as Yusuf has all of these years. Knowing me I would have withdrawn and become a hermit. But it paid off and his dreams have come true.

Love,
A'isha

[Vivian]

Well, I sure plan on sticking to my guns and standing by Yusuf!! No matter how bad things get for him, I will be in his corner!! That's for darn sure!!

Peace,Vivian

[Vivian]

Here is my letter to the editor:

To the editor:

In regards to the article by Mr. Jake Tapper, on Yusuf Islam, he is way off base. Never in my life have I seen an article filled with slanderous inuendos and yellow journalism.

First and foremost, Yusuf is far from a person who has "jahad on his hands". Those who know Yusuf, know that he is indeed an ambassador for peace. He never did support the fatwa on Rushdie. If you saw the Behind the Music Special, Yusuf said that he didn't even know there was one. He was simply explaining the laws concerning blasphomy. That is not a crime. Never did he say that Rushdie must die as Mr. Tapper claims.

As far as Yusuf "associating himself with terrorists" is also way off base! As Mr. Tapper pointed out, Yusuf's aquantences supported terrorism. How is Yusuf guilty of this. They are aquaintences. He knows who they are. They know who he is. That hardly means that they are busum buddies, does it? And the fact that Sheik Omar Baki Muhammad, would make outlandish remarks, surely proves that Yusuf has no desire to associate with those who support those kind of activities. Yusuf is just a man who goes to the aid of poor and starving people. Never did he knowingly give any funds to Hamas or any other terrorist group. And to falsely accuse him of sucthings, becaue he refused to grant an interview is ludicrous at most.

One thing I found odd, is Mr. Tapper's claim that on Yusuf's website, UKIEW is that funds should be given to jahad. Funny thing. I am a regular visitor to all of Yusuf's sites, and have never seen such words, and know that for the last couple months, UKIEW has been under construction, so how in the world did Mr. Tapper read such words. Seems pretty strange to me.

As far as what Mr. Tapper calling the "saddest statement of all" being that as he puts it, "Yusuf doesn't even qualify as an extremeist" is almost laughable, but let me add one of my own. As an American Jewish woman, I have enough confidence in my heart about Yusuf's good intentions and kind heart. Somehow, I don't get the same feelings about Mr. Tapper.

Peace,Vivian

[Turan]

Yes, when you give someone money all you can really do is trust in God that it will go for what you intended.

If you feel for Yusuf held in customs here is a story for you. My father in law used to do a lot of research in Siberia. This means flying through Moscow. Last time, five years ago I think, the customs agents checked everyone into a waiting room to wait for the airplane just before getting on. Well something happened, no one ever said what. The doors were locked on that room full of people of all ages. They were locked in for a day and a half. There was no food, no bathrooms. Marty's dad always carries a big bag of trailmix (nuts and m&ms and dried fruit) so he fed kids till he ran out. They used the corners of the room for bathrooms. I think there was a water source.

Thank you Christine and Colleen for the article. I sent it on to Wallahzareef who has changed it to word so it is easier to send. If anyone here wants it you might PM him at CScom. (He might be here too but I do not know)

I look at the data Tapper provides and see a man who continues to think and reevaluate his position and voice and position in this world. Tapper is not interested in that progressing journey, and that is sad.

The interview on the front page of CScom is really good for after reading this article.

*Laughing*, Boneheadedwomen, I do not think Yusuf is liberal by many definitions. You might want to read his recapping on Satanic Verses over at CScom. He is abit authoritarian for my tastes as a libertarian, he seems to think goverment should be involved in some personal chioces. I wouldn't mind sitting down to a really good fierce arguement with him. (lol, ok now you know my dream, argueing politics and philosophy with YI. ) We both might learn something. ;D

Turan

[boneheadedwoman]

Turan, Yes, I know he's not liberal! I think that's what bugs my husband the most: how can I continue to like/respect someone who has such a different set of beliefs. In our family, we accept religious differences easily, but political differences are a bit more thorny! I don't think I'd enjoy having a discussion about any of this stuff with YI, because for him, it's all tied to his religious lifestyle. Therefore, I think it becomes its own impenetrable system of beliefs that would not bend or change to outside logic. I'm convinced I'm right, and he's convinced he's right! We'd get nowhere fast!It's like trying to convince an atheist that there's a God. He/she would have their own explanation for everything, and no amount of persuasion could change it. I think if I could talk to him, I'd ask him about some of the places he's been to.

[Vivian]

I get the same thing in my own family! I just have to live with it!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

I have the same problem in my family. Hamdi is very conservative and I am liberal.

You know, I have to wonder if Yusuf is still conservative. He has relaxed his views quite a bit from the Yusuf we knew in the 80s. He just seems more laid back now.

Love,
A'isha

[Turan]

One of the wonderful things pointed out in this article is that Yusuf is not hidebound. He does listen, he does think about his beliefs, he does reach conclusions and he does act upon those conclusions. Another thing pointed out in this article is that Yusuf has been constant in his caring about children. I realize this is not quite the conclusion I was supposed to reach.

I think Yusuf had enough of the liberal lifestyle philosophy in the 70s. It lost all its appeal and he reached different conclusions. This helped fuel his conversion.

I seldom argue in a you must change your opinion and join my opinion. I like to explore views.

All of you can lift your jaws off the ground now. I do have some opinions that I am pretty fierce about. Really?

Turan

[Aisha]

Turan, You have fierce opinions? I think you express them rather calmly.

I was thinking this week about how I was when I was young. A scene popped into my head from when I was 18, flying down the road in a fast car hanging on the arm of a hot guy, as high as a kite' and then I looked at myself as I approach 43. In the comparison of me at 18 and me at 43 I would have to say that I was a liberal back in 1978 and compared to what I was during those fast-car-pot smoking years and what I am now, a poet, flower-planting housewife; I would have to say I am rather conservative. I think we become more conservative in many ways as we mature. Maybe that is the case with Yusuf. He just grew up. When he left the music business he gave up that wild lifestyle. He married, settled down and started his family. Yes, I would say that Yusuf became very conservative when you look back at those old Cat days. So it may not necessarily be just his religious ideals which made him become conservative.

And Turan, I have found since I have come online that listening to others' opinions is enlightening. Sometimes by listening we may even hear a different side to things and change our opinions. It is when people become aggressive, making me feel like I have to defend myself, I become rude about it all. It is like I tell Hamdi, "If you shout at me, I'm gonna shout back at you, but if you speak to me I will listen."

Love,
A'isha

[hummingbird]

One of Tapper's statements that rang true to me was when he said that after his conversion, "Yusuf plunged himself into the UK Muslim scene." Yes, I could see him doing that...he was/is a passionate man who fully embraces his involvements and interests. I think he was probably touched by the level of acceptance he felt in the Muslim community, having come from the fragmented lifestyle he was in, this was probably a welcoming feeling. Unfortunately, it sounds as though some of those people took advantage of Yusuf. One of the gentleman even said, that Yusuf "came in handy" when he needed some legal help. Gee whiz...that sounds so cold and calculating!! He could have said, Yusuf was a good friend or Yusuf was very kind hearted...but to say he "came in handy" Ughh....

Anyway, this is the aspect of the article that I find a bit depressing

-jen.

[Aisha]

Jen, you are probably right. Yusuf was so excited about his religion and getting involved in the UK Islamic community was a great way to get to know other Muslims. I went through that and have found that there are 'users' in the Islamic community too.

Love,
A'isha

[Vivian]

What worries me is that this article will start another backlash of bad publicity for Yusuf! The final statement of the article is the most hurtful! Yusuf doesn't deserve this! He is too sweet a person to be put through this!!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

Vivian, I am just hoping that people will see what Yusuf is doing now pertaining to the children of Iraq and pay little heed to the other statements in that article. Maybe people will be too preoccupied with the Dixie Chicks than to think about Yusuf.

Love ya,
A'isha

[Vivian]

I sure hope so, A'isha!! Although, I do feel bad for the Dixie Chicks!

Peace,Vivian

[Aisha]

I feel bad for the Dixie Chicks too, but I think that stuff is blowing over. Their latest CD just went back up to Number 1 on the Country charts after they posed nude on a magazine cover. I think they will be okay soon.

Love,
A'isha

[Turan]

Yusuf is a public figure. I feel for him but know he puts himself up for comment. Here is what I just posted at CS.com.


I would like to hear Yusuf's explanations and real comment, not "I am being persecuted by the media and misunderstood". That may be true, but he still is sidestepping the issue. He is not running for office so maybe is not our business but then he and we must accept negative conclusions reached. Yusuf was in his 40s and not a really new convert during most of when these concerns are voiced.

My point is that there is a much bigger and more useful story available that Tapper did not want to persue. Is it because it wasn't following what he already had concluded? Or was it just a little more difficult to show? It meant looking at what Yusuf is really doing now. Exploring issues like how is he teaching children to view other faiths and practitioners of Islam from different traditions than his? I hear Salafi have a reputation for activily persecuting Muslims they feel practice wrong. How is Smallkindness about this in the Balkans? They have a magazine, are they pushing only the Salafi line? In order to get their help must you tow the Salafi line? I have not heard that, but I have heard that the Saudi are doing this. Is Yusuf in line with the Saudis or a counter influence to the Saudi money? Is IBERR a counter to the 'free' textbooks from the Saudis?

late for milking
Turan

[Vivian]

Mr. Tapper didn't persue any other angle, because printing slander sells more magazines!! Sorry, but that is what it is based on!! It is a sorry state, but what sells, sells! That is one thing I want no part of! Yusuf deserved better than what Mr. Tapper gave him!

Peace,Vivian

[boneheadedwoman]

Excellent post, Turan! I, too would like those qustions answered. I get the feeling Yusuf has just decided he's going to help children however he can, and if others misinterpret his motives, or assume the worst, he's just not going to address the issue. In a way, I don't blame him, because it must get tiring after a while. But it's not really the best course of action in the long run. It may well be, that if he were to clean up the misperceptions, he may find a groundswell of support from moderates, and even infidels like me, to form less controversial charities. It seems to me this is especially needed for the orphans in Hebron.

[Aisha]

Vivian, crap sells. The masses would rather hear about something bad about someone than something good. It sells more magazines. Even if Yusuf had never said anything questionable or had never embraced Islam he probably would have been talked about negatively on some other thing. I think that is the case with most famous people, their dirt is more fascinating than their goodness.

As for Yusuf answering questions, he probably could and it may give answers to some inquiring minds, but chances are it will do little good. It may even make things worse because, again, the likelihood that his words will be twisted or misunderstood is high. I think he just wants to take care of the kids. I don't even know if he cares about anything but that at this time in his life. Those kids come first as his list of priorities and I think that it probably leaves little time for much else.

Love,
A'isha

[Turan]

Yep, Yusuf has been consistent throughout our knowledge of him in caring a great deal about kids. So we know what ever else he may say and do that he is a good person at base. Boneheaded, does this make sense to you why you care about someone with beliefs at odds with yours? Because you know he is trying to do good things in this world even if his aproach is different?

This is one of the reasons why I am so big on dissent being voiced.

Now I need to point out that my earlier post is still a comment on Tapper's article. I am pointing out that he needs to be as rigorous for now as the past in order for his articles thrust (complicitency) to hold water. I used Tappers definition of Salafi and his use there of.

"Yusuf plunged into the UKs Muslim scene, which, as in the rest of the world, is funded largely by Salafi petrodollars from Saudi Arabia. Salafism (known derogatorily as Wahabism) is the severe school of Islam practiced by the Taliban and Al Qaeda, as well as by more peaceful adherents. In this world, Yusuf clearly befriended and came to the aid of a number of individuals directly allied with extreme elements, Islamists who hate the West and seem bent on its destruction. How much he did this with open eyes is a matter for debate, but that he did so, and willingly, is indisputable. "

I do not know much about it except maybe al-salafi means ancestors. I seem to recall Islaamic Poet calling himself Salafi because he looks for guidance from before when Islaam started fracturing, so the Qur'an and Prophet and his closest Companions. I do not know how all this interrelates with Tapper's definition. I suspect that anyone who wants to explain had better do it via PMs.

Viv, I agree that the underlying reason Tapper did not persue his topic to the full conclusion was because it was not as dramatic and would not sell as well. I really wish he had because I wonder about these things.

Hummingbird that is a very good observation. Thanks.

Turan

[Aisha]

You know Turan, I was a Muslim for eleven years before I heard of Salafis and Wahabism. I heard of it after 9-11, but I still have no idea what either thing means. Is there a chance that Yusuf was as ignorant as I am now, back in those early days?

And about people with differing beliefs, I find them fascinating as long as respect is kept for each other's ideals. Look at Michael Cadry and me. We have almost opposing beliefs religiously but we are still good friends. I think that the differences can be very enlightening to one's life.

Love,
A'isha