Ramadan Message

[that’sDOCTOR2u]

I was listening to a very nice Ramadan message from Hamza Yusuf earlier today. He was saying Ramadan is a time for wakening, not sleep walking through life. We are to be aware of our actions, to not just re-act and let people 'push our buttons'. We are to use this time to become aware of patterns that may set us in a path away from God. The base of the message was to be kind to those we encounter, regardless of their faith.

[SoulOfTheRose]

Amen to that Kim.

[markNtime]

sasafras said:

Thanks, that helped a lot. Please don't interpret this as being critical, but my personal feeling is that 1/12th of a year is not nearly enough for me to give praise to, and/or honor my God Who has done so much for me, and try daily to honor His name by helping the poor; befriending the despondent; demonstrating forgiveness; protecting the helpless; and letting God lead me every day of the year.

Soul, I have had very few personal relationships with Muslim people, but I must say that WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE ON THIS WEBSITE, those I have had contact with, have not exhibited the "standards of behavior" you described.

In fact, two of them were physicians who were so arrogant, uncaring, chauvinistic, and rude that I finally had to change doctors. Others have been store owners who have lost customers because of the same type of behavior. Still others were a large group of students on a nearby college campus who frequently sat on the Library steps and made obscene comments & gestures as other students passed by (most often young women), so much so that they had to be asked to move from that location.

I don't believe there is a Mosque in my area, but if there was, I would probably visit sometimes just to meet some really devout Islams and dispel some of the bad experiences I have had. (This website has helped tremendously, though.)

I love reading the Bible and believe much of it was inspired by God, as well as other books, which I believe were Divinely inspired, but I prefer a more spiritual relationship with Who I consider My Heavenly Father. It would fill the bandwith of this site, if I described just a few blessings He has bestowed upon me and how He has revealed Himself to me.

Please know that I also have known Christians who have made a mockery of my faith, and it grieves me no end.

Again, thanks for sharing this information with me.

sass

Just thinking. Suppose I remove all the words that pertain to Islam or muslims in your post and replace them with words that pertain to other peoples -ethnic - faiths then see what the post reads like.
I mean suppose someone started a Happy Easter thread here, or any other religious holiday. Suppose they did that & then someone posted underneath how most of them belonging to whatever group they were seemed pretty hypocritical and worthless , arrogant, & annoying, but that they were looking forward to going to their religious place of worship in the hopes of perchance meeting some that weren't.
I am wondering why ( because I do not understand) you seem to be upset or disturbed by bad behaviour coming from people you are assuming are muslims when obviously bad behaviour, arrogance, hypocrisy, etc. is definitely not limited to just the muslim population in your area I'm sure. I mean are you just as shocked when you see a Christian man making obscene gestures to women? Are you just as disturbed when you discover the 10 commandments are being broken? Does it surprise you to discover that many people do not abstain from premarital sex even though the Bible does not allow it? I mean I'm wondering. What is it about these people that is causing you to notice that some of them are guilty of many of the same things some people from every religious background are guilty of?
I have had some really bad experiences from some people who were not even muslim. It's true. Are you just as disillusioned when your own flock sins? Just curious as to why the sinning muslims seem to stick out more to you than the other sinners. I'm only curious about why you seem shocked by them or their behaviour when I'm sure they are not the only people you have ever seen do wrong. Rude doctors? Rude doctors? There are tons of rude doctors everywhere & many of them are not muslims. I'm also wondering how you know these rude people are muslims? I mean did you doctor tell you he was a muslim before he insulted you? Were the boys singing we are muslims yes we are while they were making obscene gestures? Were the store owners preaching religion at you ? How did you know they were muslim? Some people come from muslim background and hold other beliefs like communism and some are athiest and agnostic and all sorts of things. I mean you cannot know that someone is muslim always just by glancing at them. How do you know what their religious views were? I'm not tring to offend anyone. It just seems way harsh when you say something that virtually insults other peoples. I mean can you just imagine sitting down to dinner with delegates from every country. The Chinese delegate sits next to you & immediately you start to tell him you are so happy that he is nice because you have never met another decent Chinese person. I mean do you have any idea how offensive that would be to him?


{Thanks, that helped a lot. Please don't interpret this as being critical, but my personal feeling is that _________is not nearly enough for me to give praise to, and/or honor my God Who has done so much for me, and try daily to honor His name by helping the poor; befriending the despondent; demonstrating forgiveness; protecting the helpless; and letting God lead me every day of the year.

Soul, I have had very few personal relationships with _______ people, but I must say that WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE ON THIS WEBSITE, those I have had contact with, have not exhibited the "standards of behavior" you described.

In fact, two of them were physicians who were so arrogant, uncaring, chauvinistic, and rude that I finally had to change doctors. Others have been store owners who have lost customers because of the same type of behavior. Still others were a large group of students on a nearby college campus who frequently sat on the Library steps and made obscene comments & gestures as other students passed by (most often young women), so much so that they had to be asked to move from that location.

I don't believe there is a __________ in my area, but if there was, I would probably visit sometimes just to meet some really devout Muslims and dispel some of the bad experiences I have had. (This website has helped tremendously, though.)

I love reading the Bible and believe much of it was inspired by God, as well as other books, which I believe were Divinely inspired, but I prefer a more spiritual relationship with Who I consider My Heavenly Father. It would fill the bandwith of this site, if I described just a few blessings He has bestowed upon me and how He has revealed Himself to me.

Please know that I also have known Christians who have made a mockery of my faith, and it grieves me no end.

Again, thanks for sharing this information with me.

sass }

[Aisha]

Wow, this discussion is going into the direction of tolerance...one of my key issues that I rant about constantly. At Tolerance.org I posted a thread about how I discovered certain biases that I didn't even know I had...pertaining to Arabs. I have a history with dealing with Arabs and the Arab community because I was married to an Arab for eleven years. I went through a lot of painful stuff and discovered after my divorce that I had issues with Arabs and many Muslims. I had to look within myself to pull the biases out to shed myself of them. This was caused by pain and hurt from the way I had been treated by Arabs and many Muslims. I am finally getting to a place where I can let go of the biases but it was not easy and I have to keep working. Sassafras, obviously had some bad experiences with some Muslims. We don't know how painful these experiences are to her, but the experiences must have been major to have stood out so in her life. She and I are friends, and were friends long before she came to Majicat. She isn't prejudiced against Muslims and was friends with me when I was a Muslim.

MarkNtime is right, we can take a ______ and fill it in with any ethnic, religious, social, gender, sexual orientation, any group and come up with the same issues. People are people and we all screw up on occasion. We have to learn to forgive and move on, but we also have to learn when to walk away. For most of us the behavior of some group may stand out more than from others because of trauma but all groups contain people who are hypocritical.

For example, my ex-boyfriend talked about a Muslim guy who drank, womanized, and ran a not-so-delightful motel. Does that make all Muslims the same, or Christians, or whatever. None of us are the same and we have to really take labels off of people because labels are useless unless you are on a special diet...LOL

And Sass, I remember the story you told me the other day about that doctor. It is hard to not gain a first impression about a group when the only experience you had was with someone who is a total chauvenistic jerk. But by coming here you have learned that not all Muslims are like that doctor. I am glad that you are honest enough to voice your concerns. I admire honesty.

Love,
C

[Vivian]

Well, all I know is this: When I see Yusuf Islam, I see a man of total integrety and honesty, with a heart of gold, who only wants to help people! Yes, there are bad Muslims, and Christians, and Jews, and whatever other religions out there! But Yusuf's heart is pure and full of love, and that is why I am proud to stand by him, through thick and thin! And I am DEFINATELY ALWAYS proud to be one of many MES AMIS!

Peace,Vivian

[sasafras]

markNtime

Re: Ramadan Message
« Reply #33 on: Today at 09:29:50 » <br>
markNtime, gosh, here I was feeling all warm & nice after the polite & kind explanations from Souloftherose & other Islamic ladies, and then you attack me like a rabid pitt bull. Your ranting at me epitomizes the insensitivity & arrogant attitude that I have experienced from some other Muslim people.

Thank goodness, such feelings are an exception and not the rule on this forum.

I invite you to read the last sentence of my previous post again, and s-l-o-w-l-y. Also, please note that I said that I had experienced very few personal contacts with people of the Islamic faith. I was merely trying to learn & understand.

MOONSHADOWGIRL, I consider you an angel walking among us and feel so blessed to have such a friend. You have influenced more people than you can imagine......all for good.

sass

[Gizmo]

sasafras said:

Soul, I have had very few personal relationships with Muslim people, .....

I don't believe there is a Mosque in my area, but if there was, I would probably visit sometimes just to meet some really devout Islams and dispel some of the bad experiences I have had. (This website has helped tremendously, though.)

Please know that I also have known Christians who have made a mockery of my faith, and it grieves me no end.

I understand where you are coming from MarkNtime, but I believe the way you came across sounds a little harsh (but i am sure you had no intentions of causing any hard feelings). I have selected a few quotes from Sass which clearly show that she does not have any bias against muslims, she just hasn't interacted with them on a regular basis. Sass makes some interesting points and her final sentence clearly shows that she doesn't accept this behaviour from people of any faith, including Christians (neither would I).

I am a young muslim and I interact peacefully with people of all faiths. Sass I am sure you will find that most muslims are far more considerate and welcoming than those which you have met (members at majicat are a great example).

Peace and good luck, Gizmo

[Aisha]

sasafras said:

markNtime

Re: Ramadan Message
« Reply #33 on: Today at 09:29:50 » <br>
markNtime, gosh, here I was feeling all warm & nice MOONSHADOWGIRL, I consider you an angel walking among us and feel so blessed to have such a friend. You have influenced more people than you can imagine......all for good.

sass

Thank you good friend. You know, I consider you one of those angels too, even though you have a bit of fire in you which makes me laugh quite a bit OldLady.

Love ya,
C

[sasafras]

MarkNTime, I forgot to address an issue that you seemed particularily offended by: "Rude doctors? Rude doctors? There are tons of rude doctors everywhere & many of them are not muslims."

You are absolutely right, but let me describe what I experienced:

In 1994 I had a heart attack and since I did not have a cardiologist, the ER contacted an excellent Muslim specialist. After my recovery, I asked him to approve my joining a special excercize program for heart patients. His exact words were, "You American women are sickening, always wanting to jump around in skimpy clothes at some gym. You are getting enough exercise moving around your home, doing your little wifely duties." (I am single & worked to support myself.)

Later that same year, I was hospitalize with a severe heart arrhythmia, making it necessary to insert a temporary pace maker. My 3rd day in the CC Unit was on Sunday and my doctor's partner (also Muslim) was making hospital rounds. He checked my chart, saw that my heart rhythm had stablized and summonded a nurse to remove the pace maker.....a long catheter which had been inserted in my neck & threaded through an artery into my heart.

That doctor just stood in the doorway while the nurse did that, and I don't know who was more frightened, me or that poor nurse.

Maybe "rude" was not the right word.....totally uncaring, aloof, and extremely impatience would describe those doctors more accurately. They are exceptional physicians, but retain very few (if any) women patients.

sass

[SoulOfTheRose]

That's standard procedure for a temporary pacemaker Sass...They are temporarily inserted to stabilize the heart in an emergency situation and/or to determine the need for a permanent pacemaker. Since your heart had stablilized and your doctor didn't feel you needed a permanent pacemaker installed, removing it would have been proper procedure.

Speaking as a nurse...most of the doctors I've met and dealt with over the last 5 years are just plain rude regardless of their religious faith. They are overworked, overstressed, and often work straight 36 hour on-call shifts with little to no sleep. The specialists are the worst probably because there is so much more that can happen to a critical patient that they have to deal with. Not trying to justify your rude doctor...just showing a different perspective.

[Aisha]

Sass, actually your doctor was suffering from cultural baggage rather than the Islamic religion. Many men from other parts of the world treat women like garbage (and some American men too). They are raised that way. It has little to do with religion and a lot to do with ignorance.

Love ya,
C

[markNtime]

I'm sorry I seemed to have taken this thread on another course than what the topic was.
sassafras sorry you feel you were under attack. I felt some of thge comments were innapropriate and tried to explain why I thought so. I still think a couple of those comments were innapropriate, but I did not mean to start something. I did not think I was ranting, I thought I was explaining why those comments seemed offensive to me. Excuse my participation, excuse my interruption & please excuse the direction the thread has taken. I'm sorry you feel I have "epitomized the insensitivity & arrogant attitude" that you have experienced from some other Muslim people. All I can say here is that even though I have been compared to a rabid pit bull I don't think I'll blame that on religion at all I'm really sorry people about the thread.

[Aisha]

Hey Mark,.. subjects go astray all the time on the sites....(I am notorious for pulling topics off to other things...LOL) It makes the discussion more interesting.

Often when we are online we aren't aware that we sound harsh when we post on topics. It is so hard to see emotions online. So things get a little out of whack sometimes and people get all heated. Here at Majicat people aren't intentionally rude, but it is hard to see on a screen.

Love,
C

[Turan]

www.zaytuna.org/multimedia.html

Here is another talk about Ramadan. It is by Hamza Yusuf.

Thanks Zafar for telling me to check out Zaytuna website. It is much easier to find things in now.

Turan

[SoulOfTheRose]

VERY nice! Thanks Turan and Zafar ;D

[faithfullight]

Colleen and Cat, when I said, “time of fasting and prayer for cleansing and forgiveness. This sounds very similar to Ramadan, except Ramadan is honored one month later in honor of the Qu'ran”, I was referring to this year only. I’m sorry that I wasn’t more clear. Yes, I have read that Ramadan is moveable throughout the year.

MarkNtime,
I also have known Sassafras for a while and I know that she is not prejudiced against Muslims and neither am I. There are things that I also want to understand about how Islam developed over 1400 years. Moonshadowgirl has been a blessing and an epitome of tolerance. Sass and Cat are people that I respect for their love of God, their patience and understanding, kindness and perseverance for seeking the truth. No matter which faith they belong, I can see that they are devoted to God.

Peace,
Faithfullight

[SoulOfTheRose]

It seems that markNtime has deleted his membership here....

[Turan]

Bummer. I thought his was a good observation. I didn't post to support him because of laziness, I suppose.

Turan

[sasafras]

Folks, I have not had time to post for several days, but want to respond to a couple of things now.

SoulOfTheRose: <quote> "That's standard procedure for a temporary pacemaker Sass...They are temporarily inserted to stabilize the heart in an emergency situation and/or to determine the need for a permanent pacemaker. Since your heart had stablilized and your doctor didn't feel you needed a permanent pacemaker installed, removing it would have been proper procedure."

Soul, you are correct about the temp. pacemaker. What was disturbing to me (& the nurse), was that that doctor came into my room, looked at my chart, and then left my room to go get a nurse, brought him back (nurse was a male), who he then ordered to remove the pacemaker. The nurse was visibly shocked & said, "ME?!" The doctor said, "Yes, just grab that cathether in her neck & pull it out." Maybe it was just me, but I thought that was kinda rude, and frankly, it scared me to death.

About MarkNTime, if he left because of my response to his comments, I will be more than happy to remove my name from Majicat.com so he can freely express his views.

I only wish he had realized that I question members of ANY religious faith, i.e., Hindu, Islam, Judaism, Christian (especially Christian), who profess to believe one way and act another. I want to say, "Your actions shout so loud, I cannot hear what you are saying".

My comments were made because this particular thread was pertaining to Ramadan and I was surprised because the meaning did not correctly describe the behavior of the few Muslim people I had personally been in contact with....the posters here being the exceptions.

Christine, please contact MarkNTime and ask him to return and assure him that he will surely not be bothered by me. Thanks.

sass

[Aisha]

To MarknTime and Sassafras, this place is big enough for both of you. I don't want either of you to leave.

Love,
C

[SoulOfTheRose]

sasafras said:

Folks, I have not had time to post for several days, but want to respond to a couple of things now.

SoulOfTheRose: <quote> "That's standard procedure for a temporary pacemaker Sass...They are temporarily inserted to stabilize the heart in an emergency situation and/or to determine the need for a permanent pacemaker. Since your heart had stablilized and your doctor didn't feel you needed a permanent pacemaker installed, removing it would have been proper procedure."

Soul, you are correct about the temp. pacemaker. What was disturbing to me (& the nurse), was that that doctor came into my room, looked at my chart, and then left my room to go get a nurse, brought him back (nurse was a male), who he then ordered to remove the pacemaker. The nurse was visibly shocked & said, "ME?!" The doctor said, "Yes, just grab that cathether in her neck & pull it out." Maybe it was just me, but I thought that was kinda rude, and frankly, it scared me to death.

About MarkNTime, if he left because of my response to his comments, I will be more than happy to remove my name from Majicat.com so he can freely express his views.

I only wish he had realized that I question members of ANY religious faith, i.e., Hindu, Islam, Judaism, Christian (especially Christian), who profess to believe one way and act another. I want to say, "Your actions shout so loud, I cannot hear what you are saying".

My comments were made because this particular thread was pertaining to Ramadan and I was surprised because the meaning did not correctly describe the behavior of the few Muslim people I had personally been in contact with....the posters here being the exceptions.

Christine, please contact MarkNTime and ask him to return and assure him that he will surely not be bothered by me. Thanks.

sass

Sass, my apologies, but I am just now reading your message. Concerning your doctor and the male nurse who was asked (told) to remove your temporary pacemaker...playing out as it did, I consider that very unprofessional from both of them. If the nurse had never removed one before then he should have asked to speak to the doctor outside of the room about his concerns. The doctor was unprofessional in putting the nurse on the spot as he did. Unfortunately, that's a common occurrence.

I agree with Cat that there is room for everyone here and I hope both of you will resign up. We all may not always agree on everything, but we eventually work it out and hopefully learn from each other.

Take care,
Sakinah