purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
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Post by purplemoon on Feb 15, 2011 5:05:40 GMT -5
"The Future Of Mankind"
A Lecture by Yusuf Islam
Houston Texas, 1987
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Post by sabina on Feb 15, 2011 13:47:11 GMT -5
There you go then , quick and simple intro to Islam by a prominent Muslim.....nice one Yusuf....
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purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
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Post by purplemoon on Feb 16, 2011 8:10:40 GMT -5
There you go then , quick and simple intro to Islam by a prominent Muslim.....nice one Yusuf.... @sabina: Have you watched any of these? I thought the lecture itself was very good. The Qur'an recitations are amazing. He has a real gift for that. It sounds as though he worked at modifying his accent while learning public speaking. It's interesting to watch Yusuf's circa 1990 lectures with an old Cat Stevens video as an appetizer and a recent Yusuf video as dessert. The personality projected in the lectures is sooooooo serious. It makes me want to time travel into the video, pull him off to the side and wisper: "Buddha laughed. Jesus laughed. Mohammad laughed. Lighten up! Be happy!" The absence of bliss is a sign. j |
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Post by peritura on Feb 16, 2011 11:35:29 GMT -5
I have to smile at the hint of 'oriental' accent when he speaks English in the lecture phase-now the Londoner seems to have surfaced with a vengence.  |
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Post by sabina on Feb 16, 2011 12:41:19 GMT -5
There you go then , quick and simple intro to Islam by a prominent Muslim.....nice one Yusuf.... @sabina: Have you watched any of these? I thought the lecture itself was very good. The Qur'an recitations are amazing. He has a real gift for that. It sounds as though he worked at modifying his accent while learning public speaking. It's interesting to watch Yusuf's circa 1990 lectures with an old Cat Stevens video as an appetizer and a recent Yusuf video as dessert. The personality projected in the lectures is sooooooo serious. It makes me want to time travel into the video, pull him off to the side and wisper: "Buddha laughed. Jesus laughed. Mohammad laughed. Lighten up! Be happy!" The absence of bliss is a sign. j :)Of course I have, and thank you for reminding me about them and I listened again.... I so enjoyed :)Soooo much of what Yusuf says resonates with me....at least I know that I'm not truly weird,as some think ,in my take on material possessions........I read a lot,but never buy books.......and the only 3 Albums I ever had in my life were the trio that now reside somewhere in Algeria..!!!  hmmmm ...........This was a while ago 20 years or so?I particularily was impressed at Yusufs singing in Arabic and this confirms what I always suspected......the Man is so serious about his faith...I can admire that......if you going to do something do it properly..,I say!!! The path he treads is not one I'd relish...imagine a vid of me and my beliefs 20 years ago would be a corker!!!!! It's hard when the world is privy to a big chunk of your life......the pressure must be enourmous......and I dont think that Yusuf is thick skinned , so doubly hard...mind you you makes your own choices.....or you go with the ones God chooses for you..... .? Its defo not for me to say(but I will anyway) that we all mellow with age and can say and do things that we didn't before.Is this because we are wiser and see life from a position of confidence in ourselves ...I'd like to think so............... |
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Post by sabina on Feb 16, 2011 12:50:59 GMT -5
 ....and as you are inclined to do a bit of Yusufs Da'wah for him I attach the following...I was most inerested to see how we can mellow and change our opinion and take on things....for all good reasons I have to believe :)I am a person who trusts unless that trust is twisted,abused or broken :)then I am upset the more so............I guess I am not expressing what I feel and think very well...I am watching and listening.....mean what you say say what you mean...........I might be able to do that one day.......... Attachments:
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Post by sabina on Feb 16, 2011 13:27:27 GMT -5
:)OK...this is where I was at...clearly am moving to a different place if Yusufs Da'wah is something I enjoy delving into??............I was with Richard Feynman (1918-1988)Joint Nobel Prize for Physics 1965..
'You see,one thing is,I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing.I think it's more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.
I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different agrees of certainty about different things but I'm not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I don't know anything about,such as whether it means anything to ask why we're here....................
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purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
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Post by purplemoon on Feb 16, 2011 19:25:52 GMT -5
@sabina:
How could anyone NOT be interested in Yusuf's Da'wah?
Is this a Feynman quote? (Are you saying you KNEW Feynman?)
What, if anything does the Qur'an (hadith?) say about doubt and seeking?
Great Doubt: great awakening.
Little Doubt: little awakening.
No Doubt: no awakening.
-- Zen Proverb
Unthinking faith is a curious offering to be made to
the creator of the human mind." -- John A. Hutchinson
"There lives more faith in honest doubt,
believe me, than in half the creeds."
-- Alfred Lord Tennyson from the poem "In Memoriam"
"Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between
belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make
room for doubt and those who do not." --- Mark Taylor
[ "The Devoted Student" NYT 21 December 2006 ]
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Post by sabina on Feb 17, 2011 4:30:39 GMT -5
:)yes it is a Feynman quote I came across one day......it said what I was thinking.....
I must admit I have no idea what the Qu'ran says about doubt and seeking..but I'd like to know..trouble is sometimes the information out there is seems too complicated and scholarly ...well at least for me...must be looking in the wrong places I guess...however i'll take a stab and say that I expect that it will be quite understanding about the matter?
What did you think about the 'Music faith or Da'wah'article?
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Post by aurarisma on Feb 23, 2011 0:15:31 GMT -5
I think in general we should never quench our thirst for the truth, for our idientity, and the Ultimate Reality ... Do you believe in Ulitimate Reality ?
sometimes@sabina .. doubt is a blind spot.. waiting for a breakthrough... and we all have them daily ... Divine Light Shines thru
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Post by aurarisma on Feb 23, 2011 0:18:18 GMT -5
Have any of you read "The Philokalia" ??
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Post by sabina on Feb 23, 2011 2:51:00 GMT -5
Have any of you read "The Philokalia" ?? :)OMGoodness, of course The Way of The Pilgrim!!!! Wow its ages since Ive discussed this!!!!!Love this!!! I so enjoy retreats of all kinds....not been on one for ages... Ascetic mysteries of the inner soul.....contemplative prayer.... peace and quiet and serene surroundings... :oChristina this 'thing' never ceases to surprise and amaze me!!! ...anyway back to your question.. yes ,sort of .........The Jesus prayer in its simplicity was a great attraction for my path...but then something happened to the Jesus bit that plunged me into search search mode...early 70's again!!!!!! I've gathered my thoughts and prayed on that one....and I'm still not able to verbalise..but its all good so Im not in a panic!!! For me I need, badly,to go and sit in a cave..........fat chance...so its taking far longer....and is a bit torturous...and now I am also diving into your Ultimate Reality thing......... |
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Post by sabina on Feb 23, 2011 2:58:51 GMT -5
:)On the other hand I'm supposed to be trying to go a simple way..........God is love.......we are to love each other.........and so all else flows from that...........sigh..if only it were so simple..................besides which, inner stuff fascinates me Any one know of a warm cozy cave somewhere...hmm I think its supposed to be damp and cold and unyielding...Guess Ive still a way to go then!! x |
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Post by sabina on Feb 23, 2011 7:39:14 GMT -5
:)Seem to remember St Thoephan the Recluse?and his writings on prayer?....wonderful...... THe Pilgrim was Russian ?But Greek Orthodoxy I believe led the way here?Must get back to this... I remember spending time with my friend Erica,(may God rest her Soul)talkin of all these things... I was so into all the great Russian writers too,,, spirituality and sweeping steppes, I think that my Dad was a Tartar in the generations past!.....she had loads of books and was one of my libraries of the past...... Fav books maybe a new thread............? This is so lovely ...thank you  |
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Post by aurarisma on Feb 23, 2011 21:04:35 GMT -5
Jesus is the best example of humility and Spirit of God .. for me because He never killed anyone. God wouldnt kill anyone .. I have questions about anyone saying God said to do that . .. why I do respect Muhammad pbuh yet still look to Jesus as my example ... how he walked with sinners and He still recognized the God in them ..
loving the conversation
on this all.. and its sharing love !!
for all these books show humility and love .. xoxox
yes back to Yusuf's lectures altho ' he recites just like an audio doesnt he ?? Beautiful x
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purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
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Post by purplemoon on Feb 24, 2011 3:02:45 GMT -5
God wouldnt kill anyone ... I have questions about anyone saying God said to do that If God wouldn't kill anyone, what is death? How do you resolve the teachings of Jesus with those of "The Old Testament?" My personal theory is that divine revelation is ongoing, that Jesus was a "fulfillment of scripture" in the sense of "clarification" and that Mohammad was a"seal" of prophecy in the sense of "confirmation" (as opposed to "last"). Surely the revelation of every messenger or prophet is specific to the needs of his culture and era. For me, this view coheres best with what I know of other spiritual teachings from around the globe. Learning about the spiritual teachings of other cultures has been important to me because I cannot bring myself to believe that God would deny spiritual awareness to all sentient beings throughout all of eternity except for a few tiny tribes of humans in the Middle East who lived during the last four millenia. After reading around in The Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, the Brahmasutra, the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, The sutra in 42 sections spoken by Buddha, the Tao Te Ching, the repressed gnostic writings of early Christianity, books about peoples whose spiritual teachings were orally transmitted (like the Hopi, the Navaho, the Australian Aborigines, African tribes, etc.), and the writings of modern saints (Gandhi, Thomas Merton, Nelson Mandela), my sense is that there is an ultimate spiritual truth, but that it is always, of necessity, distorted by the cultural and linguistic lenses through which it is perceived and expressed. I am continually astonished by how similar the teachings of Jesus are to those of The Buddha. In reading the Qur'an, I am trying to discern the similarities and understand the differences. I think it's important to keep in mind that Mohammad's revelation was addressed to a culture plagued by constant tribal warfare, where illegitimate children were left on the street to die, pre-adolescent children were married by arrangement, slave women walked the streets bare-breasted and eating meat sliced from living animals was common. Perhaps swift capital punishment and hand-chopping were lesser evils in that era. What the people can be persuaded to do is always a problem. If Mohammad had said "free all of your slaves," would anyone have listened? A good mother helps a child to crawl when it is ready to crawl. Later, she helps it walk. Perhaps God sends only those lessons we are ready to receive -- whether the lesson is given to individuals, or to nations, through prophets. |
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 3:06:36 GMT -5
Jesus is the best example of humility and Spirit of God .. for me because He never killed anyone. God wouldnt kill anyone .. I have questions about anyone saying God said to do that . .. why I do respect Muhammad pbuh yet still look to Jesus as my example ... how he walked with sinners and He still recognized the God in them .. loving the conversation on this all.. and its sharing love !! for all these books show humility and love .. xoxox yes back to Yusuf's lectures altho ' he recites just like an audio doesn't he ?? Beautiful x :)Hi....Yes ....we all have loads to talk about!!!!In the gentlest possible way...I'm so glad that I am not as headstrong and opinionated as I was when young.in age..........how nice to have experienced and acted on it.......Yusuf quite clearly has ...... Y'know I have a humble opinion which is taking shape re Steven Demetre Georgiou and his path.......I'm nearly there ..still oscillate at times...does it really matter what I think?probably not......not for public consumption leastways.......... .......... seems clear that if you are different things to different people its a hard path..East and West...religious considerations...musical persona etc etc Naivety is helpful ,a strong faith a must..an enlightened approach and a heart full of love and forgivness.....but you're still simply a person.. a man person at that....innit? I so wish I could be in Morocco,Mawazine, to see how it all goes down there,different perspective .....will the same eyes see the same person? ... the troubles and all(may God keep people safe!).....will it happen........... |
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 4:05:45 GMT -5
God wouldnt kill anyone ... I have questions about anyone saying God said to do that If God wouldn't kill anyone, what is death? How do you resolve the teachings of Jesus with those of "The Old Testament?" My personal theory is that divine revelation is ongoing, that Jesus was a "fulfillment of scripture" in the sense of "clarification" and that Mohammad was a"seal" of prophecy in the sense of "confirmation" (as opposed to "last"). Surely the revelation of every messenger or prophet is specific to the needs of his culture and era. For me, this view coheres best with what I know of other spiritual teachings from around the globe. Learning about the spiritual teachings of other cultures has been important to me because I cannot bring myself to believe that God would deny spiritual awareness to all sentient beings throughout all of eternity except for a few tiny tribes of humans in the Middle East who lived during the last four millenia. After reading around in The Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, the Brahmasutra, the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, The sutra in 42 sections spoken by Buddha, the Tao Te Ching, the repressed gnostic writings of early Christianity, books about peoples whose spiritual teachings were orally transmitted (like the Hopi, the Navaho, the Australian Aborigines, African tribes, etc.), and the writings of modern saints (Gandhi, Thomas Merton, Nelson Mandela), my sense is that there is an ultimate spiritual truth, but that it is always, of necessity, distorted by the cultural and linguistic lenses through which it is perceived and expressed. I am continually astonished by how similar the teachings of Jesus are to those of The Buddha. In reading the Qur'an, I am trying to discern the similarities and understand the differences. I think it's important to keep in mind that Mohammad's revelation was addressed to a culture plagued by constant tribal warfare, where illegitimate children were left on the street to die, pre-adolescent children were married by arrangement, slave women walked the streets bare-breasted and eating meat sliced from living animals was common. Perhaps swift capital punishment and hand-chopping were lesser evils in that era. What the people can be persuaded to do is always a problem. If Mohammad had said "free all of your slaves," would anyone have listened? A good mother helps a child to crawl when it is ready to crawl. Later, she helps it walk. Perhaps God sends only those lessons we are ready to receive -- whether the lesson is given to individuals, or to nations, through prophets. :)Yes...indeed I've also had those thoughts...but I ceased to be astonished when I took the Simple(as in manageable for me)take.......all religions look to a higher being,whatever they choose to call 'IT'.........All espouse to be 'good' is a virtue and to follow a moral code is 'good'.....if you love your neighbour then all else follows.......so love is all it seems.... of course there is the other inner personal relationship with God....both seem to be linked .........however I do know some really 'good' people who say that there is no God,for them..there is no heaven..so they strive to do their best for fellow man whilst here on Earth and alive..........who am I to say who is 'right'?I would never belittle or diss anothers views or choice of path...nor do I ever think I am 'right'...mellowness in age is a kindly thing..I hope to aspire to wisdom ..and believe that when I bounce into someone some thing sticks on the rebound... The words 'simple' and 'truth' are sometimes oxymorons ,for me, :)thank you for listening,,,,,,,sabina x |
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purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
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Post by purplemoon on Feb 24, 2011 5:26:05 GMT -5
I do know some really 'good' people who say that there is no God, for them..there is no heaven..so they strive to do their best for fellow man whilst here on Earth and alive ...who am I to say who is 'right'? I sincerely believe that people who say "there is no God" are almost always rejecting religious dogma and have not moved beyond that revulsion to a willingness to fall to their knees before The Universe, pleading "Show me!" |
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soitis
Moonshadow Member
I love my dog as much as I .......
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Post by soitis on Feb 24, 2011 6:37:29 GMT -5
Yes,rejecting religious dogma and yes pleas Show me!
I believe only in things that can be scientifically proofed.
Dogmas are not acceptable.But that doesn't mean that I am not aware of human ignorance.
But ignorance can only be overcome by new scientific discoveries and not by dogmas.
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Post by JaneB on Feb 24, 2011 9:06:30 GMT -5
I will never fall to my knees and "plead" for anyone to show me, but yes, if god exists, show me. I am with Soitis; I believe only in those things that can be proven by science.
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 9:48:56 GMT -5
:)Hi Soitis and Janeb....NOW we could have a wonderful discussion.....how I wish we were all relaxing ,wine for those who do....and just listening to one another....I'd love to 'have a go' with you guys.......and I know that I'd learn from the experience!!! For me though there are as many things in life that cannot be explained, as can.,..by science....but all can be explained by a belief/faith in God...Faith...now theres a word!!!!!!! My own personal view leans toward a God.... but with no dogma...... I dont have to have dogma or proof of any kind when I connect with the complexities of even the smallest organism or faintest emotion... I just think life and the world good and bad cannot possibly be just in a physical dimension....because I feel some sort of spiritual thing?Specially when meditating (at prayer?).......or even looking closely at a flower... BUT 'whatever rocks your boat' I say and I love to explore the reasons why people think and behave as they do...not clearly in an analytical sense...just curious and open to all points of view!! I'm so enjoying this.... |
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Post by JaneB on Feb 24, 2011 11:11:11 GMT -5
Faith is belief in the absence of proof. I don't believe that all can be explained by belief in god, but perhaps that is true for you. For me, explanations require some kind of proof or scientific basis. There are many things that science cannot yet explain, but I think all things will - one day - be explained by science.
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Post by G-One on Feb 24, 2011 11:34:00 GMT -5
Just listen to the introduction |
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 12:01:45 GMT -5
Faith is belief in the absence of proof. I don't believe that all can be explained by belief in god, but perhaps that is true for you. For me, explanations require some kind of proof or scientific basis. There are many things that science cannot yet explain, but I think all things will - one day - be explained by science. :)Hi exactly so.. Faith a belief in the absence of proof...perfect...no need for proof!!!!!Why should science take the high ground anyway? By the way I used to think like you for a while and then..........it all just changed for me..no great revelation just ..it did.. I play the devils advocate quite a lot and love it!! :DI respect your standpoint by the way Janeb. . |
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Post by JaneB on Feb 24, 2011 12:21:15 GMT -5
You may not need proof, but I do. I always have. That is why I love science. I'm willing to say something MAY be true if it is not yet proven, but logic will not allow me to say it IS true.
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 12:36:31 GMT -5
:)Thats not to say that I wouldn't like to have a really juicy discussion about this tho...... ;D
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 12:52:25 GMT -5
You may not need proof, but I do. I always have. That is why I love science. I'm willing to say something MAY be true if it is not yet proven, but logic will not allow me to say it IS true. :)Hi As it happens I love science too! I teach Science maths and English thro 11 to 16 year olds at the moment...I find no contradiction in my personal beliefs and Science....in fact strangely I have become to love science more...after all it is all about the world..how its made ,how it works ,lovely stuff...particularily Biology..........no, no contradictions there either!!! |
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Post by sabina on Feb 24, 2011 13:31:26 GMT -5
Just listen to the introduction :)Thank you @g-One...sigh..I did...Hmmm yes I am one of the uncomfortable ones at the moment.!!'act upon it/show it'......phew this is all moving a bit too fast for me............mind you why would I be here interested in this?Yusuf has always had the capacity to shake me up.........even in this thing!!This is too hard tho' need a break! Many thanks anyway :)I think!!  No seriously thanks G-one!!... |
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soitis
Moonshadow Member
I love my dog as much as I .......
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Post by soitis on Feb 24, 2011 15:57:51 GMT -5
You may not need proof, but I do. I always have. That is why I love science. I'm willing to say something MAY be true if it is not yet proven, but logic will not allow me to say it IS true. :)Hi As it happens I love science too! I teach Science maths and English thro 11 to 16 year olds at the moment...I find no contradiction in my personal beliefs and Science....in fact strangely I have become to love science more...after all it is all about the world..how its made ,how it works ,lovely stuff...particularily Biology..........no, no contradictions there either!!! Now I remember one case when my wife, who was profesor of biology tolled me that she had misunderstanding with school catechist because she was teaching about evolution of life and he was teaching children how the life on earth was created by God in seven days. So,same children,sameshool and two opposite interpretation of the same thing.And of course children were confused about that, asking from both of them what was the real fact. |
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....and as you are inclined to do a bit of Yusufs Da'wah for him I attach the following...I was most inerested to see how we can mellow and change our opinion and take on things....for all good reasons I have to believe :)I am a person who trusts unless that trust is twisted,abused or broken :)then I am upset the more so............I guess I am not expressing what I feel and think very well...I am watching and listening.....mean what you say say what you mean...........I might be able to do that one day..........
