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Post by onefordylan on Sept 29, 2008 17:23:07 GMT -5
Does Cats Stevens have something like Dead Base (Grateful Dead) which lists all of his concerts and the music played?
I have a Cat Steven concert. I pull it out of hiding every ~10 years as the collective of the internet continually combines its resources to see if I can pin this down. My friends parents got it from a friend and never wrote down any info on it. They think it from 70-71. I looked through all the bootlegs listed here and while its appears to be a definite 70-72 show, nothing matches. I was hoping to hear clips of all the bootlegs so I might be able to identify something, but for some reason the bootlegs only have one or two song available for listen? The songs on this are not in the same order then the other bootlegs.
I also wonder if, since back then LP length was so restricted, that perhaps they cut-up the music so they could neatly fit it on two sides of a record. I remember hearing this atrocity on some other bands bootlegs, which really destroys the movement and progression, but appeared to be more common in the 60's and 70's due to the high cost of record and lack of taper standards.
Im kind of thinking this may have been cut up because of how neatly it fits on the record. I also think it was the norm to play all concerts in the exact same way to make it easier on the musicians and produce a high end shows instead of experimenting on stage.
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Post by JaneB on Sept 29, 2008 19:05:10 GMT -5
You may want to list out the songs in the order they appear on your recording, and include any unusual or memorable sounds or noises that appear as well. Someone on the board may be able to help you identify the concert that way.
Good luck!
Jane
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 1, 2008 1:06:58 GMT -5
Ok, here is it is, it on tape and is 1st gen audience-from the vynl. I dont know what gen the vynl is:
Side 1
Moon Shadow
On the road to find out
Where do the children play
longer boats
maybe your right
miles from nowhere
Side 2:
Peace train
Hard Headed Woman
Father and son
Changes IV
Into white
Im guessing this cant be a full concert. Seems too short compared to concerts today. The album with nothign on the sleeve or the circular paper thing on the record. If there is still trouble figuring this one out. I am going to have to put this on hold till I find time to figure out how to put my stereo back together , setup all the wires and then plug it into my computer.
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 1, 2008 1:36:46 GMT -5
I was also wondering is there anyplace we can DL the CS bootlegs listed on this website? Why are only some songs available to listen to is it because its illegal or something?
On final thought I talked with my friend the other night and he thinks his parents told him NYC 1971, but we are talking about a conversation he had in like 1981. Over the years his parents have said either 70 or 71 and claimed not what the concert was. Interestingly there is another on this site listing NYC from 1971 but the songs dont exactly match. Interestingly the songlist is fairly similar. Also I noticed that the listed NYC 71 show was also appears to be a chopped version of a CS show.
If it ever get this thing into MP3 where can I send it so everyone can enjoy it?
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Post by Milan on Oct 1, 2008 8:55:26 GMT -5
That setlist looks pretty much 1970-71 to me.
"I was also wondering is there anyplace we can DL the CS bootlegs listed on this website?"
Various torrent sites. Some threads here even link to them (check out the "those great concerts" board, for instance).
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Chris
Oh Very Young
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Post by Chris on Oct 1, 2008 20:11:51 GMT -5
Just a thought, could it be a copy of the CATNIP LP? The track list looks the same, except for one song, Sad Lisa. If it is the same concert, it is from 1972 - Chicago. majicat.com/recordings/catnip.htm |
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Post by Milan on Oct 2, 2008 2:44:31 GMT -5
Good point there, Chris.
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 7, 2008 2:34:55 GMT -5
Anyone else having problems playing the Catnip recording? I think this may the Catnip concert. I'd like to hear that and match it to this recording. I have the latest Real player and it just sits there, when I try to play the one track.
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Post by cristalina on Oct 7, 2008 8:27:37 GMT -5
Ok, here is it is, it on tape and is 1st gen audience-from the vynl. I dont know what gen the vynl is: Side 1 Moon Shadow On the road to find out Where do the children play longer boats maybe your right miles from nowhere Side 2: Peace train Hard Headed Woman Father and son Changes IV Into white Im guessing this cant be a full concert. Seems too short compared to concerts today. The album with nothign on the sleeve or the circular paper thing on the record. If there is still trouble figuring this one out. I am going to have to put this on hold till I find time to figure out how to put my stereo back together , setup all the wires and then plug it into my computer. On my Catnip album (vinyl) the listing is almost the same only Side 2 also has Sad Lisa. Amusingly Moonshadow is listed as "If I ever Lose my Head" ;D ;D |
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Chris
Oh Very Young
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Post by Chris on Oct 7, 2008 20:02:02 GMT -5
Anyone else having problems playing the Catnip recording? I think this may the Catnip concert. I'd like to hear that and match it to this recording. I have the latest Real player and it just sits there, when I try to play the one track. Thanks for the heads up onefordylan.... I've corrected the audio for you. Where Do The Children from Catnip is quite distintive. If your boot is from Catnip, you will be able to tell by Cats chatter before singing this song, as he talks about wanting children someday. Catnip - Where Do The Children Play - AUDIO |
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 11, 2008 0:22:09 GMT -5
!!!!!YIPPIE!!!!!
The 18 year old mystery is solved.
It is indeed Catnip. My friend parents will be happy to know this, they received this album in approximately 1975-1977 from a friend. Unlike the few Catnip album covers that I have seen, this one had no cover art and no information on the record label.
Christine FTW
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 11, 2008 0:33:15 GMT -5
I do have one question then. What is an "unoffical" release? Was Catnip a bootleg or something the record company floated to peak the interest of certain music industry types. I only ask because as noted above the one I recorded this off of, as I remember it, had no info on it. However, if you look at the link below to this one selling on ebay (sorry in advance for when this link will be broken), the record label appears to have further information that might reveal who cut this record. Does everyone else have the same detail as this on listed on ebay? I understand you cant read it, Im just curious about how this thing made it into circulation as I would imagine it would be a monumental task for a bootlegger to have his own vinyl fabrication machine and cover stamping machine. That record label appears to have some extra detail on it past the songlist and I was curious about it. Thanks
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Chris
Oh Very Young
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Post by Chris on Oct 11, 2008 21:40:40 GMT -5
Onefordylan, it most definately is a bootleg. The record company didn't have anything to do with this lp, Chapter IV Live, or Hoaxer Midnight Daydream. There is a mention in an old Cat article of Chapter IV, and trying to compete against the live bootleg LP's by someday producing an live LP.
As for my Catnip LP, there is nothing indicating that it is a Cat Stevens LP, or even that Catnip is the name of the LP. The only inscription written on the lp, is on both side 1 and side 2
THIS GIFT BORN OF US
BELONG TO ALL
ENJOY ENJOY
As for how they were distributed?You could buy them in many of the underground record stores of the 1970's in college towns across the states and europe. This particular LP, has no record information such as who produced it or where. There was nothing to indicate who could be charged, if a suit were to be brought up against the producers of the LP.
Anyway, this is what Wiki says about Bootleg LP's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
History of bootlegging
The early years
Unauthorized recordings can be traced back to the early days of opera, jazz, and blues music. The first recognised rock bootleg in the United States was a double-LP known as The Great White Wonder, for the plain white cover, sleeve and labels. This was a 1969 collection of Bob Dylan recordings and studio out-takes, as well as seven tracks from sessions made with members of The Band (released many years later in The Basement Tapes), put out by a pair known as "Ken" and "Dub". The album was in great demand since these unreleased tracks were otherwise unavailable. Hundreds of other bootleg LPs of Dylan's music, including several volumes of Little White Wonder would be released over the ensuing years. One notable release was Ten of Swords, a 10-LP box set that was issued shortly after the 5-LP Biograph was released in 1985. Unlike most major artists, whose bootlegs were usually recorded in large concert venues, the Dylan bootlegs were typically taken from unreleased songs, demo tapes, or live performances made in intimate settings or during interviews.
Other early bootleg recordings that date from the same time period as The Great White Wonder include Kum Back / The World's Greatest by The Beatles, Live On Blueberry Hill by Led Zeppelin and The Greatest Group on Earth by the Rolling Stones. Soon thereafter, bootleg recordings began to emerge from Britain as well, with an unofficial release of a live recording of Jimi Hendrix at the Royal Albert Hall.[1]
Early live recordings typically contained a great deal of crowd noise, with screams and whistles from audience members close to the microphone sometimes drowning out the performance. Bootleggers gradually found ways to minimize this, sometimes just by choosing their position in the crowd carefully, by elevating the microphone above the crowd on an extensible pole, or by taping it to a light or speaker pole. Others found sophisticated ways of connecting recording equipment directly into the Front of House mixing console or soundboard, with or without the cooperation of the performer's sound crew.
Blank album covers and labels were commonplace in the early years of bootlegging; the album was often identified only by a photocopied page inside the shrink wrap listing the artist and songs, sometimes with a photograph or two. Some albums would have phony labels or covers that listed songs and artists that were in no way related to the actual music on the album. In an attempt to legitimize the practice, many LPs purported to have been made in Italy, West Germany, Australia and other countries so that they could be marketed as "imports" rather than bootlegs.
After having many of their albums available in bootleg, The Who decided to put out their first live album (Live at Leeds) in 1970 with a brown, cardboard looking cover with "The Who Live at Leeds" stamped on the cover to make it appear as though it were a bootleg. The songs were written on the album (by Townshend's hand) to further the joke. The sound quality of this album was actually better and cleaner than most live recordings of rock bands that had been officially released prior to that date.
Many years later, and for the same reason, Aerosmith released their first official live album, Live! Bootleg in 1978. In addition to imitating bootleg cover designs, the album also gives an incorrect track listing (which is also common in bootleg recordings): the song "Draw The Line" is included on the record but does not appear listed.
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Post by onefordylan on Oct 12, 2008 18:42:35 GMT -5
One interesting thing on this is that before Peace Train start he announces that "This is a new song thats about nine months old" and starts playing and the audience has no reaction, yet was enthusiastic (generously speaking) on the all other songs on this bootleg.
Thing is Teaser came out in October 1971 with Peace Train on it, I would have though nine months was plenty enough time for people to know what this song was (his biggest) and cheer him on. In the late 70s and early 80s nine months was plenty of time for an audience to know what was on an album, but then again, I think I read Cat Stevens took off slow in the US. For some reason Im inclined to question 1972 as a date for this Catnip Bootleg, but again the crowd appears small and this could have been his tour to support the Teaser album in the newer US market.
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Post by Milan on Oct 13, 2008 13:52:01 GMT -5
"I would have though nine months was plenty enough time for people to know what this song was (his biggest) and cheer him on."
My guess is that by "This is a new song thats about nine months old" he meant "nine months since I wrote it/composed it", not the album release date...
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