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Post by hummingbird on Nov 4, 2003 20:22:55 GMT -5
Hey, no problem Faithful. I understand what you're saying.
Just an aside...I think it's important to make a distinction between the people of America and the government. One can disagree with the government, foreign policy, etc without being critical of the American people.
Just thought I'd throw that in there....
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 5, 2003 11:12:21 GMT -5
I do have a lot of things that I want to respond to. I'll combine the posts that I am responding to in green to keep this in perspective of what I'm wanting to say.
"Yusuf has noted a very common perception of America and Americans held by non Americans. Now it is not how I see myself. Kind of gives one pause that that is how we seem. My husband tells me of the difficulty over seas doing business because people have had bad experiences with heavy handed arrogant American business men.
I wouldn't condemn someone for voicing what he percieves about me. I might try to change so he percieves me differently.
Just because Americans are very generous does not change the other. As some one told me once with frustration, "I don't want charity, I want an even playing field."
Turan
Turan,
I know that there are many arrogant American business men, but I also know that there are many Americans who are not like that. I know that there are arrogant people in all areas of society, wherever they live. That is a human trait which has variance of extremes in all humans -- in which the country that they live in has nothing to do with it. Arrogance is a human trait which has no boundaries where it could show up. Some people have learned to overcome arrogant feelings while others had not. I have also heard American people discuss the arrogance of business men from other countries. My husband deals with business men from several other countries. I have been indirectly affected by arrogant business men’s decisions (who look down upon Americans) because it affects my husband’s job which has an effect on our family. Some of those arrogant business men come to America and they push their authority on Americans who have to adhere to their decisions because of business dealings. No, arrogance is not an “all-American” trait, although it is present in us as well as in other people.
I am not condemning Yusuf for voicing what he perceives about Americans, but I also know that his opinions when he voices them can and do affect people. As a man who wants to find peace in our world, spreading gossip about American attitudes, which are also attitudes which are prevalent in other nations, is not helping. I am not denying American attitudes of arrogance, but I do not agree that only Americans have this attitude. So why point out this flaw in just Americans? All peoples from wherever they live are guilty of arrogance! ~Faithfullight
Bluesissycat (Kim) said, ”Interesting point Turan. My husband was in Greece recently, his third year working over there. He saw lots of 'Death to Americans' signs this last trip. I have to say that even before he told me this, I was concerned for his safety, and the safety of other Americans working abroad given the current climate. It is very sad, because I believe that Americans are good people.”
Kim,
That is sad. I don’t see any signs displayed in our country which says death to _____________(whatever nation). Sure, people have felt angry towards certain other countries for bringing harm to America in whatever means, and we speak out about it, but we don’t display signs and wish for any nation to die! You have to look at a situation from both points and not all people think alike in any given country. ~Faithfullight
”I've said it once, and I will say it again! Yusuf is a man with one hundred percent integrety and honesty, with a heart of gold! I trust him ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!
Peace,Vivian”
Vivian, I also think that Yusuf is very honorable with integrity and honesty, but I don’t hold him as being a perfect human being. I don’t consider any human being as being perfect. I only consider God as perfection. Just because I see Yusuf making (what I consider mistakes), doesn’t mean that I condemn him or hate him for his mistakes. I do feel disgusted in having to deal with the consequences of what he may say which may indirectly affect the opinions of other people from other nations which is based on OPINIONS and not facts. Yes, he has a right to voice his opinion, but when someone is in the position as he is on a scale of notoriety, then he has the added responsible to be extra cautious in what he places out there in the media.
Peace,
Faithfullight
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Post by Aisha on Nov 5, 2003 11:55:45 GMT -5
Hey, all countries and places can be called arrogant. I have been around many cultures in my lifetime and most of the people point at others and say, "God, look at their arrogance. Look at their culture..yada, yada, yada." Almost any culture with point out the flaws of another culture without seeing the flaws within their own culture. I think it has to be human nature and fear of the unknown. Americans are no more arrogant than anyone else. We just have a more powerful government.
Love,
C
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 5, 2003 12:12:56 GMT -5
Kareema said, “Yusuf Islam is a man and no man has 100% of any personal attribute. He does not want to be deified. This is the reason that he explored Islam in the first place.
It is very satisfying to hear him express his opinion of world affairs, etc. I commend the interviewer for 'going for the gusto' as it were.
All too often it seemed to me that he had resorted to some sort of pat 'why I came to Islam' script. If you read one interview, you have read them all.
I am American and I agree that the US appears to see global domination as a goal. The invasion of Iraq was about the destabilization of the region and had nothing whatsoever to do with WMD, 'freeing' the Iraqi people from oppression, or whatever other reason the Bush administration comes up with to whip up patriotism. Iran is the next target in the crosshairs... it has already started with nuclear inspection demands.”
I guess there are some Americans who see the US as wanting global domination as a goal, but I do not. I suppose I feel that Saddam is wanting global domination as a goal. But his idea of leadership, I do not want! So, I can see Yusuf’s view of thinking that the war is a clash of egos. It may be this, but I cannot know the heart of our president and I do not have any power over his decisions. I pray for God to guide President Bush in making the best decisions for all people involved. I don’t know all of the walls that the two men cannot get through to find a solution. I don’t know everything that happened in the past except for what I had read through testimonies, news and media. But I do know that our president doesn’t murder anyone who contradicts his opinions, nor does he attack us in painful torment to force us to support him or die. I would imagine that if President Bush did try to dominate Iraq and their culture, then the American public would kick him out of office. In America, we do have that option, in Iraq, no! I wish that the war didn’t start in the first place. I have posted in the past that I did not want to go to war unless there were no other option to defend the Iraqi people (and us as well). But that wish is now gone. We did go to war, so now we have to move on and go from here. ~Faithfullight
Kareema said, “It all sure looks like colonialization to me. Afghanistan and Iraq today, perhaps Syria and Iran tomorrow.”
Kareema,
I don’t know how you think like that about America, but you have a right to think as you do. You have lived a different life than I had and I had not stepped in your particular shoes, even though we are both American. I do not agree with your opinion, but that doesn’t mean that I am against you. I am proud that Americans are free to think on their own and make their own decisions for their lives. I do respect your thoughts but I don’t have to agree. ~Faithfullight
Kareema said, “Israel posses nuclear and other WMD (which they obtained from the US), yet there is no call for nuclear inspections or regime change on behalf of the Bush administration. Israel runs roughshod over the Palestinian people daily in a situation akin to an ant threatening an elephant . Saddam Hussein = Ariel Sharon. . A despot is a despot is a despot.
What is very unfortunate is that Americans themselves become judged negatively by the unfortunate recipients of Bush administration foreign policy. I lived in Germany in the late 70's and even then public opinion in Europe had turned against Americans due to the behavior of the American soldiers stationed there.
I will step down from my soapbox.”<br>
kareema
Kareema,
When a leader of a nation has used chemical warfare, such as Saddam, to kill his opponents within minutes, then that ant can hurt the elephant. Size doesn’t matter. I have not read any articles that Israel used chemical warfare against anyone. If there are any articles, then can someone please post them so I may read them. This is why chemical warfare must be banned. It will only bring destruction to our whole planet. ~Faithfullight
Moonshadowgirl said, “I finally got to read these translations. My computer is acting all weird so sometimes it takes 15 minutes for the page to load...only at Majicat though...go figure.
About America, I think that Yusuf may be saying that often we are ready to believe whatever our President says. Many Americans do this, not all, but many. The fact is that I have serious doubt to the real motives of George Bush and why we are in Iraq. Sure, I want Suddam out of there, but is this being done really to help Iraq or other reasons? It is good to question things without following leadership blindly.”
Amen to that! ~Faithfullight
Moonshadowgirl said, “We should also, no matter how much we love Yusuf, question Yusuf because he is a man and makes errors. No offense to Yusuf here, I am just saying that we can't follow everything he says out of our admiration of him.”
Thank you C for understanding what I’m trying to say. ~Faithfullight
Moonshadowgirl said, “ In the last year I have become a major questioner and I question everything even Yusuf. It is not that I don't respect and love him, I just realize that he is a man and I can't 100% agree with him on everything, just like I can't agree 100% with anyone. It is the way I am these days...question, question, question.
I think the article was very interesting even if I had trouble understanding the translation. Yusuf made a lot of good points. Plus, the translation cracked me up...LOL I wonder what Yusuf will think when he reads the translations...Maybe he will correct it and translate it properly so we can really grasp what he is saying. It is an interesting thing to ponder.
Love,
C
I do hope that Yusuf will translate it for us. And I think that I agree with about 90% of what Yusuf has written, past and present. But because I disagee with 10% doesn’t mean that I condemn the whole man! He has overall contributed to our world in a very positive way from what I know of, and I am still very proud of Yusuf for his good deeds! I will never forget the good that he has accomplished.
Peace,
Faithfullight
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 5, 2003 12:32:34 GMT -5
just to clarify, iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. not one of the suicide bombers was from iraq. as a matter of fact, prior to the invasion of the US into iraq, the only act of iraqi terrorism in the past 20 years (at least) against the United States was the attempted assassination of former President Bush. other than that, you will not find IRAQIS participating in these terrorist tactics. Well, I don't judge all Iraqis as being a terrorist, but there IS a group of terrorists who ARE Iraqi and they also claim to be Muslim! That's the vicious connection to the crime of what the terrorists have done! Like Yusuf said, "the terrorists have hi-jacked my religion." Like Yusuf, I want to see the PEACE that Islam is supposed to teach come out and dominate the Muslim world and how non-Muslims view them. and please lets stop perpetuating the 9/11-iraq connection. they are two completely separate issues. I don't see them as two completely separate issues. They are connected and there were connections from 9/11 to Iraq through the terrorists. Are you privy to facts that the rest of the world hasn't discovered yet? Has the connection to Osama bin Ladin been changed? Am I missing an important piece of information that you have? Please post the link to the article(s) that prove that there were not any connection of 9/11 to the terrorists who follow Osama bin Ladin. I have read that there are Muslims on this very website who said that they know and live with Muslims who support the actions of Osama bin Ladin. Faithfullight |
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 5, 2003 12:37:31 GMT -5
Hey, no problem Faithful. I understand what you're saying. Just an aside...I think it's important to make a distinction between the people of America and the government. One can disagree with the government, foreign policy, etc without being critical of the American people. Just thought I'd throw that in there.... Thanks for inputting that thought, Jen. The problem is that people from other countries do form opinions by what other people say about other countries. That was the point in why I said that I felt disgusted that Yusuf said that the U.S. wants to dominiate other nations. And while there are some Americans who may feel this way, there are many who do NOT. I really and truly do not feel that any American that I know wants to dominate another country. Peace, Faithfullight |
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Post by DiddleMingyAdams on Nov 5, 2003 13:00:59 GMT -5
Well, I don't judge all Iraqis as being a terrorist, but there IS a group of terrorists who ARE Iraqi and they also claim to be Muslim! That's the vicious connection to the crime of what the terrorists have done! Like Yusuf said, "the terrorists have hi-jacked my religion." Like Yusuf, I want to see the PEACE that Islam is supposed to teach come out and dominate the Muslim world and how non-Muslims view them. I don't see them as two completely separate issues. They are connected and there were connections from 9/11 to Iraq through the terrorists. Are you privy to facts that the rest of the world hasn't discovered yet? Has the connection to Osama bin Ladin been changed? Am I missing an important piece of information that you have? Please post the link to the article(s) that prove that there were not any connection of 9/11 to the terrorists who follow Osama bin Ladin. I have read that there are Muslims on this very website who said that they know and live with Muslims who support the actions of Osama bin Ladin. Faithfullight my point was not that i felt you were saying all iraqis are terrorists. my point was that there were no acts of terrorism against the US prior to the start of this war. admittedly, there are plenty of acts of terrorism being carried in iraq now. there is no connection between osama bin laden and saddam hussein. quite frankly, they despise each other, and bin laden considers hussein an infidel, calling him such in one of the tapes that was released a few months ago. my point is that this war was softened by insinuating a 9/11 connection, so that the american people would feel that this war was justified. our government took the fragile, wounded and terrified collective soul of our nation and used it to perpetuate overthrowing a government with a plan that was on the table long before 9/11. here is one link, and this story was written quite awhile ago. since that time it has been determined there is even LESS of a connection than we had been led to believe (even if not directly stated, the connection has consistently applied). hope this can clear things up. www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/11/Iraq.Qaeda.link/ |
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 5, 2003 13:33:23 GMT -5
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Post by DiddleMingyAdams on Nov 5, 2003 13:51:35 GMT -5
thanks for the links, sak..that's more what i was looking for but was time constrained.
(on a personal note, sorry for disappearing last night, baby called, and you know how that goes.. seems she was desperate to spit up on MY shoulder.. my son's wasn't good enough, HRMPH!)
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 5, 2003 14:19:55 GMT -5
No apologies necessary Colleen! ;D I was getting off the net anyway because I had 5 basket loads of laundry to put away. I don't know why I do it this way, but I'll spend all day washing clothes and then most of the night folding, hanging, and putting away (in between helping with homework). I need a maid.....
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Post by kareema113 on Nov 5, 2003 14:22:01 GMT -5
Salaam alaykom,
Perhaps my view of the region is different because I have had to investigate what is going on in order to answer questions put to me agout terrorism, simply because I am Muslim.
Sadaam Hussein's intention was and still is to 'liberate' Jerusalem in the manner of Salahuddin (Saladin) 700 years ago. The foe he intends to vanquish is Israel whereas Salahuddin faced the Crusaders.
There were many spots on the now defunct Iraqi TV which showed Saddam Hussein on a rearing white stallion brandishing a scimitar during which was played rousing songs about the plight of the Palestinians and the liberation of Jerusalem from infidel control.
This only goes to show what a twisted megalomaniac this man is.
The invasion of Kuwait was the taking back of a region which was formerly part of Iraq and to a man who thinks he is the second Salahuddin, it made perfect sense.
Saddam Hussein's target pure and simple is Israel. The US is involved because the US supports Israel. Therefore Americans are an indirect target.
It may be that Sharon has never used chemical weapons, however the continuing bullozing of the Palestinians' homes and the attacks by helicopter gunships (supplied by the US) on civilians are tactics that he does employ.
From what I understand some of the illnesses that Gulf War veterans now experience were not caused by Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons, but by George Bush's. 'Friendly fire', as it were. The Gulf War seemed so bloodless because the bodies of Iraqi soldiers were bulldozed into the ground before reporters were allowed in. 500,000 Iraqi children died as a result of the sanctions against Iraq of diseases preventable by vaccination.
There are two sides to every story.
I concur with Colleen that there is not and never was any connection between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein. Osama bin Laden did recently renounce him. It was only by the Bush administration's propaganda machine to convince Americans that invading Iraq was 'for freedom' that the connection was made.
Have you ever seen the movie "Wag the Dog?"
Incidentally Osama bin Laden's goal is to liberate Jerusalem from the infidels and to bring about a regime change in his home country, Saudi Arabia, because the Al-Saud monarchy allows non-Muslims (which bin Laden sees as the infidel) to be on what he considers holy ground, ie, the US has a military presence there. Once again the US is supporting a corrupt regime. Once again Americans are the indirect target. And since the US does have a global presence, the targets are worldwide.
We do not see 'Death to __________' signs because our propaganda chooses to target a specific person or group rather than a country. I did hear the sentiment... "Let's bomb Iraq back to the Middle Ages!' expressed, however.
This is ironic because Saddam Hussein's goal is to 'restore' the region to exactly that era...
Wa'sallam,
kareema
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Post by Whisper on Nov 5, 2003 14:57:17 GMT -5
There is a very popular radio talk show host who very frequently says America should nuke all the Muslims back into the dark ages. He repeatedly calls for Americans to 'nuke them all'. & oh he is much nastier than that but that's too much typing.
He isn't the only one wailing war chants and making 'nuke them all' type statements.
I think that sounds about an equal to some of their death to America chants.
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Post by Aisha on Nov 5, 2003 15:49:11 GMT -5
Whisper, I don't listen to talk radio because the bigotry and hatred piss me off.
The fact is that terrorism exists in every religion, culture, and place on the planet. People call it different things but it is terrorism. Not ever Muslim is a terrorist and not every terrorist is a Muslim. Terrorists are just sick people who feed off of their hatred for other groups and they intimidate people by using fear and murder. No one who willingly takes a human life and murders that life can be doing such things for God. He/she is doing it for sick reasons that are only clear in his/her mind.
Love,
C
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 6, 2003 13:26:04 GMT -5
Colleen and Sakinah, Thank you for posting the links. It will take me awhile to get through them and read what they say. I feel that the problem with Saddam is that he completely misunderstands the guidance of the Qu'ran. From what I read, it condemns killing our brothers and innocent people. I think that his opinion that all Israelis are infidels is backwards because he (Saddam) is the infidel! Infidels do not honor the ways of God because they cannot understand God's ways, and they cannot understand God's love and mercy. Saddam does not follow the path of peace, love, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, justice -- all those attributes, Saddam does not possess. Yes, Saddam is a twisted, repulsive megalomaniac. Why should he win back any land if he is an evil ruler? Palestinians have a right to their land as much as the Israelites. Palestinians and Israelis are kin, even though they are loyal to their own branch of religion, they both worship the same God. God created all of mankind and one is not better than the other except those who live for peace are better than those who want to destroy mankind. There are "Cains" and "Abels" mixed among both Palestinians and Israelis, and as well among other nations. We are not to divide ourselves as brother against brother, mankind against mankind. We will ALL return to God who created us and HE will judge us for our deeds. Those who murder and attack innocent people (wherever they live, from whichever nation), will suffer for their deeds. Saddam's target should not be Israel. The evil that we should fight is the forces of invisible powers which is found with all humans -- in attitudes of arrogance, greed, superiority, vanity, jeolousy, hate! Those are things that are present among all people and there are no group of people who are completely free of those evil inclinations. The enemy is not who lives in another country, or those who are loyal to their own particular branch of religion, but the enemy is within each of us. God's guidance was to fight the enemy within! Why can't people understand that? I am so frustrated that anyone should have the gall to call another group of people infidels when they are the infidels themselves! Take the plank out of our own eyes, then we will all see much clearly! Yes, there are two sides of every story, and I have read and seen pictures of Iraqi citizens who suffer from malformations on their skin and have difficulty with health problems caused by the chemicals that Saddam used. I did not keep a tab of those links, but I will see if I can relocate them. I don't agree that the Iraqi people should not have access to vacinations and the necessities for life. Every human deserves a chance to live in dignity. This includes Palestinians as well as Israelis, as well as any nation of people. To live in peace, we must learn to tolerate each other and let live. It is not right for any nation to destroy another nation by using any type of mass destruction. www.mpfweb.org/91101_zunes.html
"Some Middle Eastern governments -- notably Libya, Syria, Sudan, Iraq and Iran -- have in the past had close links with terrorist organizations. In more recent years, the Al-Qaeda movement -- a decentralized network of terrorist cells supported by Saudi exile Osama bin Laden -- has become the major terrorist threat, and is widely believed to be responsible for the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States. Bin Laden himself has been given sanctuary in Afghanistan, though his personal fortune and widespread network of supporters has allowed him to be independent on direct financial or logistical support from any government."Well, in this article, Iraq's government has had close links with terrorist organizations at least in the past and it names Al-Qaeda (which is supported by Osama bin Laden). Who is bin Laden think he is that he can judge for God? As you said about the U.S., Kareema, "our propaganda chooses to target a specific person or group rather than a country." It is better to focus on a particular person or the particular group that wants to destroy and murder people rather than generalizing that that person's whole nation is tied to their evil deeds. Yes, it is ironic "because Saddam Hussein's goal is to 'restore' the region to exactly that era..." He may just get what he asks for, a region of his citizens living under a hellish regime. Peace, Faithfullight Sadaam Hussein's intention was and still is to 'liberate' Jerusalem in the manner of Salahuddin (Saladin) 700 years ago. The foe he intends to vanquish is Israel whereas Salahuddin faced the Crusaders. There were many spots on the now defunct Iraqi TV which showed Saddam Hussein ... rousing songs about the plight of the Palestinians and the liberation of Jerusalem from infidel control. This only goes to show what a twisted megalomaniac this man is. The invasion of Kuwait was the taking back of a region which was formerly part of Iraq and to a man who thinks he is the second Salahuddin, it made perfect sense. Saddam Hussein's target pure and simple is Israel. The US is involved because the US supports Israel. Therefore Americans are an indirect target. From what I understand some of the illnesses that Gulf War veterans now experience were not caused by Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons, but by George Bush's. 'Friendly fire', as it were. The Gulf War seemed so bloodless because the bodies of Iraqi soldiers were bulldozed into the ground before reporters were allowed in. 500,000 Iraqi children died as a result of the sanctions against Iraq of diseases preventable by vaccination. There are two sides to every story. I concur with Colleen that there is not and never was any connection between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein. Osama bin Laden did recently renounce him. It was only by the Bush administration's propaganda machine to convince Americans that invading Iraq was 'for freedom' that the connection was made. Incidentally Osama bin Laden's goal is to liberate Jerusalem from the infidels and to bring about a regime change in his home country, Saudi Arabia, because the Al-Saud monarchy allows non-Muslims (which bin Laden sees as the infidel) to be on what he considers holy ground, ie, the US has a military presence there. Once again the US is supporting a corrupt regime. Once again Americans are the indirect target. And since the US does have a global presence, the targets are worldwide. We do not see 'Death to __________' signs because our propaganda chooses to target a specific person or group rather than a country. I did hear the sentiment... "Let's bomb Iraq back to the Middle Ages!' expressed, however. This is ironic because Saddam Hussein's goal is to 'restore' the region to exactly that era... Wa'sallam, kareema |
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 6, 2003 15:22:42 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I read the article, but with all due respect, it does not unequivocally show a direct link between Iraq and the WTC tragedy.
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Post by DiddleMingyAdams on Nov 6, 2003 15:47:34 GMT -5
www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htmthat link might help in showing just what impact 'iraqi' terrorism has had on the US (or abroad) for the last 40 something years. there is not only an unequivocal link, there is, quite simply, no link at all. we are not (well i speak for myself) disputing the evils of saddam. what we (myself) dispute are the reasons we took him out.
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 6, 2003 16:12:51 GMT -5
Actually after my post I realized that this thread has gotten way off track with totally unrelated information. I apologize!
Did anyone ever volunteer to translate the German interview from it's original?
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Post by DiddleMingyAdams on Nov 6, 2003 17:14:02 GMT -5
Actually after my post I realized that this thread has gotten way off track with totally unrelated information. I apologize! Did anyone ever volunteer to translate the German interview from it's original? i think majikat did it on the other site. or at least part of it, or something like that. |
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Post by kareema113 on Nov 6, 2003 22:46:26 GMT -5
Salaam alaykom,
if you do venture over to the other site, I suggest that you to stop at Majikat's translation post on page 1.
There are no more translation posts in the thread.
By the way, Colleen, you go, girl!
Wa'sallam,
kareema
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 6, 2003 23:03:36 GMT -5
AsSalaamu Alaikum, You wouldn't happen to have the web address to Majikat's site would you please?  WaSalaam, Sakinah |
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Post by DiddleMingyAdams on Nov 6, 2003 23:42:55 GMT -5
AsSalaamu Alaikum, You wouldn't happen to have the web address to Majikat's site would you please? WaSalaam, Sakinah its not majikats personal site, it's on the other cat stevens site. you know catstevens.com/yusufislam.com |
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Post by faithfullight on Nov 7, 2003 13:33:59 GMT -5
By the way, Colleen, you go, girl! Wa'sallam, kareema What does this comment suppose to mean? I can feel that several of you are pitting yourself against me rather than discussing a concern among one human with another human being. Added with the comments like, "with all due respect" and "my two cents worth," etc. also sounds arrogant. Comments like that turn me off because I read prejudiced attitudes into it. It's one thing to discuss a topic, and it is another to indirectly belittle someone if their view differs. I am well intentioned trying to understand your point of view, but if you feel that you are 100% correct and don't even want to consider what I'm saying, then what is the use of this discussion? Do you think that you know the absolute truth about everything and that you could never be wrong? If I am reading something into this that you hadn't intended, then why post those comments? BTW, several of you commented on how you feel about Saddam, but what do you feel about Osama? It isn't clear to me what you think about Osama bin laden. You seem to overlook commenting on his atrocious deeds. ~Faithfullight |
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Post by Turan on Nov 7, 2003 14:57:00 GMT -5
Osama Bin Laden hasn't been the topic.
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Chris
Oh Very Young
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Post by Chris on Nov 7, 2003 15:07:11 GMT -5
I don't think Kareema was referring to this site. I think sh was responding to Col about something she mentioned on another site.
I haven't read much with this thread since it turned into a political and religious debate. Sadly the rest of this article has taken a sideline into one paragraph yusuf mentioned and taken off from there. I don't think Yusuf meant for his little remark to take over the whole article.
He was raised British and as Jen said, most europeans have a different opinion of Americans, than we have of our selves. It doesn't make them bad for having such an opinion. And yes we do tend to stick our noses in places that sometimes I wish we wouldn't. Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Israel to name a few, and Iraq. Oh though these are my opinions just as it was Yusuf opinion to voice his. I'm not being un-American to say such things, and neither is Yusuf.
Anyway, as I said there were other nice things in the article to talk about other than just this us against you type talk.
Christine
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Post by SoulOfTheRose on Nov 7, 2003 15:14:04 GMT -5
What does this comment suppose to mean? I can feel that several of you are pitting yourself against me rather than discussing a concern among one human with another human being. I believe Kareema was referring to a post that Colleen made on another website...at least that's what I thought she was referring to anyway. No, we are not pitting ourselves against you FFL...the three of us just happen to agree on this one issue on which you disagree. Well FFL, what would you have rather I said? When I use terms like "with all due respect" it means that, while I respect your view, I do not agree with it. It is used when one person is trying to be respectful to another whom he or she doesn't agree with during a discussion. Saying "my two cents worth" is simply acknowledging that one is giving one's opinion on the matter and nothing more. I fail to understand where anyone has belittled you in this discussion... As far as I'm concerned...don't know about the others...I do not necessarily feel that I am 100% correct about any issue which is why I posted several links related to this issue for you to review. I asked you to post links supporting your view and you did not...so...you're correct when you ask "What is the use of this discussion?" The fact is, this thread is not about Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden - it's about a German interview with Yusuf Islam. Why can't we simply stick to the topic at hand in these threads instead of digressing into these same issues over and over again? I could ask you the same question FFL. If you are reading into my posts that I am trying to belittle you or disrespect you in any way, then you are misreading them altogether. I meant no disrespect to you in any fashion and if you were offended by my posts, then I apologise. You seem to be Johnny on the spot in making a mountain out of a molehill. Why do you feel you need to know this information concerning how we feel about these different people? I would think that anyone reading our posts here throughout this forum clearly understands that we do notsupport, have never supported, nor do we agree with Saddam or OBL in any way without us constantly having to comment on what they've done. I, for one, am weary of having to explain and re-explain my views of Saddam and OBL and I am weary of these types of discussions. Can we just please stay on topic for a change? My apologies to everyone here.... |
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Post by Daddy-o on Nov 7, 2003 15:59:15 GMT -5
I agree. I cannot read this thread. Surely there's nothing to be gained from being so analytical and negative. I think talk about religion and politics always ends on a sour note. War... what is it good for?
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Post by Aisha on Nov 7, 2003 16:03:57 GMT -5
Hey, I haven't kept up with it in a couple of days because the entire topic lost me. I am totally clueless anyhow.
Chris, have you considered a forum for such discussions. I have one and people keep the topics that are volatile in that place where others don't have to run into it unless they choose to.
Love ya,
C
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Post by Aisha on Nov 7, 2003 18:01:19 GMT -5
Has anyone heard the Flaming Lips? I haven't heard them and wonder what they sound like...
Talk about diverting a topic....bru-hahahahaha
Love,
C
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Chris
Oh Very Young
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Post by Chris on Nov 7, 2003 22:39:28 GMT -5
Chris, have you considered a forum for such discussions. I have one and people keep the topics that are volatile in that place where others don't have to run into it unless they choose to. Love ya, C No, Cathy I haven't considered it. This is a Cat/Yusuf site. I see what happens on other websites when you intermingle politics/religion with your original content. Sometimes it is not a pretty sight. And as I said before, I wanted to keep this website peaceful. (if possible) I don't mind a polical or religious thread now and again, but lets not hijack a thread to achieve this goal. If you wish to go off to the left of the original topic, then please start a new thread about such and such in the assorted topics. It's a shame, but because of these type talks we already lost Sasafras and nickNtime.  Christine |
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Post by Aisha on Nov 7, 2003 23:04:02 GMT -5
Chris, I hope we can get both of them back. I guess it works in my forum because it isn't really a forum focusing on one major theme like yours. It is basically a place for all kinds of discussions. But when you mix religion and politics things usually go haywire. It is sad that those two subjects can invoke so much hurt. You are wise to avoid it in a forum like this.
Now, about those Flaming Lips...What do they sound like?
Love,
C
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