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Post by paulo on Jan 12, 2009 9:06:50 GMT -5
Whilst I was trawling through the pages of You Tube I have encountered an interesting debate involving Coldplay, Joe Satriani, Marty Balin and Cat Stevens. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before but I found it intriguing. I am sure most people will have heard the band Coldplay's popular new song released last year entitled 'viva la vida' (if not: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPESince the international hit was released a legal action has been unertaken by world famous guitarist, Joe Satriani who claims that the musical basis of this song was stolen from his own 2004 musical number 'If I could fly' ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMcjXo8ZuqE) And recently another element has emerged to this debate which involves Marty Balin's 1980 song 'Hearts' ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTp0P5xMHog) Which also shares a similiar musical quality. I accept the basis of the above allegations being made by Joe Satriani and Marty Balin fans that Coldplay stole the tune to Viva la vida from them but the final piece to the puzzle blows them all away in my eyes. The melody to Cat Stevens' 1973 suite 'Foreigner' (this part in particular: www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8-jEdBqbbE) in fact sounds uncannily similiar to Satriani's 'if i could fly', Balin's 'Hearts' and Coldplay's 'Viva la Vida' Considering that Cat's song precedes all of the other previously mentioned songs I believe that it is quite clear that neither Satriani or Balin have a case but that in fact Yusuf himself does. Whilst I fully accept that there may be nothing untoward in all of this, and that it may all be a coincidence I would be interested to hear the opinion of board members all the same. |
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Post by sunspark* on Jan 12, 2009 11:04:10 GMT -5
OMG Paulo, you are absolutely right!! did you know Flaming Lips tried this with one of his songs (Father and Son no less), changed it up a little bit and tried to pass it off as their own song, THEY TOTALLY LOST IN COURT! Had to pay him! Just shows how GREAT 'Cat Stevens' really was, and how underrated he is -- people are still copying him to this day!! All of those guys - Coldplay, Satarini, Balin - OWE Yusuf some royalties $$$$$$!!!!  Send this to him through his website, now! amazing - good pick up! |
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Post by suncatcher on Jan 12, 2009 11:37:16 GMT -5
Wow! I just listened to them all, and it blew me away. I'm no expert, but it's so obvious - and it's more than just a few notes. This is amazing.
Do you think the similarities are enough to make a case? How do they prove this kind of thing in court?
~Sun~
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Post by Daddy-o on Jan 12, 2009 15:19:48 GMT -5
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Post by paulo on Jan 12, 2009 16:53:51 GMT -5
I'm from Australia and about to embark on a law course at University this year but I'd be studying Australian intellectual property law and not in England.
Perhaps someone with a little more influence (Christine or Vivian maybe?) could pass this on to Yusuf. If Yusuf won the royalties battle it could mean big money for Small Kindness.
That Pet Shop Boy's song is clearly Wild World- no doubt about it!
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Post by suncatcher on Jan 12, 2009 21:54:29 GMT -5
Hey, George, It's great to hear from you! Maybe it's coincidence, maybe not. Problem is, I can't decide, and I wonder who can and how. I think that it would be very easy for someone to pick up part of a melody and internalize it and spit it back out as his own, totally innocently. I wonder at what point it becomes plagiarism? I can imagine a day when copyright lawyers and music executives claim that every possible set of notes is protected - and then what? That'll put such a chill on musical creativity. There are only so many combinations of notes, afterall. I wonder if the big record labels have musical experts who listen to new songs and try to make sure they're considered completely original before releasing them. ~Sun~ |
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Post by Lucy13 on Jan 12, 2009 22:22:04 GMT -5
FASCINATING! I feel pretty definite about the first three you mentioned, paulo (especially the first two.) Not so sure about the Foreigner Suite bit though -- but you have a good ear for making the possible connection! You could very well be right, but I think they just share the same notes, different order. The Coldplay-Satriani connection seems indisputible though. And George -- interesting about It's A Sin -- hadn't heard that one before. Very clearly a rip-off of Wild World. At least those bars. But legally ... I think I've heard it said somewhere that it is legal to borrow 8 bars from someone else's song. But that's it. I could very well be wrong! (but one wonders -- at one point have all the songs in the universe been used up? Certainly the best ones!  And great songs do kinda build on great music that came before.) Also (as an aside) -- it was GREAT hearing that Hearts song again (hadn't heard that one in AGES! LOVE it.) |
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Post by sueinhollywood on Jan 12, 2009 23:27:47 GMT -5
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Post by sueinhollywood on Jan 12, 2009 23:42:54 GMT -5
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Post by Daddy-o on Jan 13, 2009 13:01:57 GMT -5
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Post by flemmishfangent on Jan 13, 2009 13:31:58 GMT -5
It's al ready a wonder there are not more songs that sounds the same but Cat's words on his song makes the song to what it is his story.
Wonder what Joe says about it all .Regine
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Post by margiaustralia1 on Jan 13, 2009 19:17:52 GMT -5
It just goes to show what an influencial songwriter Cat was. No wonder everyone is trying to pinch his songs.
peace
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Post by paulo on Jan 13, 2009 19:43:04 GMT -5
It really does.
However, I think it is our duty as fans to spread the word on this- this whole saga has concentrated on Satriani and Coldplay up to this point, we need to let people know about the Cat Stevens link.
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Post by Daddy-o on Jan 14, 2009 1:50:50 GMT -5
Paulo, it's quite well known and all done and dusted. If memory serves me right, Jonathan King originally discovered the similarity in melody in his Sun newspaper column. He even released a single It's a Sin/Wild World and the Pet Shop boys ended up suing JK and won damages. Yusuf was reported to be flattered more than anything else by the similarity. It's a fine lines sometimes.
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Post by downunder72 on Jan 14, 2009 8:32:02 GMT -5
They may copy a few notes, but no one will ever be able to capture or copy the majic in CS/YI voice.
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Post by JaneB on Jan 16, 2009 18:14:42 GMT -5
They may copy a few notes, but no one will ever be able to capture or copy the majic in CS/YI voice. Truer words have never been spoken! |
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Ruins
Wild World Member
Posts: 286
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Post by Ruins on Feb 6, 2009 14:21:58 GMT -5
There are definitely some striking similarities. Just goes to show how influential of an artist Cat really is.
Regarding the Pet Shop Boys, it's a blatant rip-off. But hey, the band sucks anyway. It's really a shame Cat didn't sue those clowns.
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Post by downunder72 on Feb 6, 2009 16:49:09 GMT -5
There will always be artists trying to steal a few notes here and there, but once CS is in your system, he's there to stay. Probably CS's music notes must just accidently flow over onto their music sheets when they are creating a new song. They must have a bad case of CS-itis too. I've heard there is no cure. ;D Maybe he should take it as a compliment.  Anyway, I don't think YI wants to spend the rest of his life sueing people. |
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And great songs do kinda build on great music that came before.)
