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Post by Aisha on May 27, 2003 18:01:41 GMT -5
Faithful, sometimes I run away from the news because the images I see of the cruelty people heap on others is too much for me to handle. I will lie in bed seeing the bloody images a child killed at the hands of a prideful tyrant and I can't fathom having that much cruelty within one's self. My only solace is that there is a Merciful and Loving God who will grant those who suffer greater rewards in Paradise.
Love,
A'isha
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Post by Vivian on May 27, 2003 22:15:44 GMT -5
Faithful, sometimes I run away from the news because the images I see of the cruelty people heap on others is too much for me to handle. I will lie in bed seeing the bloody images a child killed at the hands of a prideful tyrant and I can't fathom having that much cruelty within one's self. My only solace is that there is a Merciful and Loving God who will grant those who suffer greater rewards in Paradise. Love, A'isha I feel the same way! And Yusuf has witnessed so much of this cruelty, FIRST HAND, time and time again! Sometimes, I just frustrate myself, because I wish I can do more to help, but I feel I am not doing enough!! Peace,Vivian |
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Post by faithfullight on May 28, 2003 8:42:08 GMT -5
The innocent will be very happy with their new found heaven of bliss. They will feel no more pain, and no more hate. They will be in awe of the beauty and love! ;D Those who murdered and caused great agony will feel what they caused to others. I can't imagine the pain that Bin Ladin and Suddam Hussein will feel. What agony! If they only knew what lay ahead of them!  Faithfullight |
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Post by faithfullight on May 28, 2003 13:00:04 GMT -5
I just finished listening to "Afghanistan of Islam" from Yusuf's Nasheeds. Am I correct in saying that this is on The Life of the Last Prophet? It was the only song that I felt was more modernized and geered toward the younger generation of teens. I'd like to hear more modernized songs like this (and this didn't have any musical instruments either). Did Yusuf write this song?
I sure do hope and pray that the "believers" they are singing about are the believers of God in whichever branch of religion. Because this song also says that the disbelieving army is going to h***. (I think that the song would have been wonderful without that one line.) That's the only part of the song that I wasn't too crazy about. But it was a song about those who have died and are left homeless after the war. Very touching!
We need to emphasize the positiveness of love and learning to embrace one another without being prejudice or bigoted. There's already too much negativity about religions. Let's move on and learn to love.
Faithfullight
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Post by Turan on May 28, 2003 14:07:36 GMT -5
This song was recorded in 1985 or earlier. Yusuf gave a concert in Peshawar and sang this as a rallying song for the Afghans fighting against the Russian invaders. It is pretty fiery. I have wondered how it fits with his stance of contiensious objector? The fight in Afghanistan was self defense and looked very bleak at that point. catstevens.com/discography/albums/00066.htmlI think my question is answered by the song Angel of War. There the question is what does one fight for? Turan |
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Post by faithfullight on May 28, 2003 14:34:32 GMT -5
Thanks Turan  I'd like to hear Yusuf sing it. I saw from the link that you posted that Yusuf did write and sing it. But, where did you find the info: "Yusuf gave a concert in Peshawar and sang this as a rallying song for the Afghans fighting against the Russian invaders." I wish this world would learn to tolerate differences rather than fight over who's on top! (Only God is at the top) We have to give up superiority, dominance and aggression to find peace. (The only just reason that I can see for war is self defense or defending the weak from tyrant abusers.) I also enjoyed the link you gave to muhajabah. I read the whole page. It demonstrates how the Qu'ran and the teaching of Muhammad was not clearly understood and how four different branches sprang out to try to interpret them. They couldn't all be right. I think that it is quite crystal clear that those who fight and do evil acts of hate and aggression are totally missing the guidance of peace. Peace to you, Faithfullight |
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Post by Turan on May 28, 2003 16:30:08 GMT -5
I wish I could give you the article but I can not seem to find it. So you got my memory of it.
As to the different schools of interpreting Islamic law. I would not say only one can be right. That is way too narrow a look at truth. Rather they may all contain a thread of truth. They are extrapolations from the base of the Qur'an.
Turan
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Post by faithfullight on May 29, 2003 7:36:09 GMT -5
I wish I could give you the article but I can not seem to find it. So you got my memory of it. As to the different schools of interpreting Islamic law. I would not say only one can be right. That is way too narrow a look at truth. Rather they may all contain a thread of truth. They are extrapolations from the base of the Qur'an. Turan Turan, Thanks for trying to locate it. The different interpretations of the Islamic Law may all contain a thread of truth, and they may also contain error and misinterpretations. Peace, Faithfullight |
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Post by Vivian on May 29, 2003 9:56:50 GMT -5
I just finished listening to "Afghanistan of Islam" from Yusuf's Nasheeds. Am I correct in saying that this is on The Life of the Last Prophet? It was the only song that I felt was more modernized and geered toward the younger generation of teens. I'd like to hear more modernized songs like this (and this didn't have any musical instruments either). Did Yusuf write this song? I sure do hope and pray that the "believers" they are singing about are the believers of God in whichever branch of religion. Because this song also says that the disbelieving army is going to h***. (I think that the song would have been wonderful without that one line.) That's the only part of the song that I wasn't too crazy about. But it was a song about those who have died and are left homeless after the war. Very touching! We need to emphasize the positiveness of love and learning to embrace one another without being prejudice or bigoted. There's already too much negativity about religions. Let's move on and learn to love. Faithfullight Beautifully said, and yes, I believe Yusuf DID write Afghanistan!! Peace,Vivian |
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Post by faithfullight on May 29, 2003 10:45:58 GMT -5
Thanks Viv.
Do you have The Life of the Last Prophet? Is this song on that CD? And does Yusuf also speak about Islam (besides the Prophet Muhammad)?
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Post by Turan on May 29, 2003 11:46:15 GMT -5
catstevens.com/discography/albums/00046.htmlThis has the list from 'Life of the Last Prophet.' 01Early Life__02Prophethood__03Migration__04Conquest Of Makkah__05Tala'a al-Badru 'AlaynaLyrics/Tab/Info_06La Ilaha Illa AllahLyrics/Tab/Info_07Muhammad Al-Mustafa Shariah is not infallable, it is the work of men not God. There are on line courses on Islamic juriprudence. Qur'an 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. If there is no compulsion, then individuals must be free to make their own desicions in their life, spiritual and base. The Qur'an is a guidline, a path, but it takes a human with the ability to think and must think for himself, to incorporate that into his own daily life. I am trying to say that it does not need to all be the same, and could only be the same through compulsion. 'Right direction' does not mean lock step together, with in that is cultural and individual expression. God made us a multitude of nations to get to know each other, not to assimulate each other. Which comes down to the thorny issue of dealing with dissenting voices. I am curious also in how Yusuf views these questions, and how his opinion has developed over the decades. Turan
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Post by faithfullight on May 30, 2003 8:21:14 GMT -5
catstevens.com/discography/albums/00046.htmlThis has the list from 'Life of the Last Prophet.' 01Early Life__02Prophethood__03Migration__04Conquest Of Makkah__05Tala'a al-Badru 'AlaynaLyrics/Tab/Info_06La Ilaha Illa AllahLyrics/Tab/Info_07Muhammad Al-Mustafa Thanks Turan. I see... there are two CD's. The first is the story and the second is the songs. I was thinking that there was only one CD and I wondered where the information of his life was told. Do most Muslims think that the Shariah is not infallable? Do they realize that men may have interpreted the Qu'ran in their "own views" rather than God's intended guidance? Do they actually acknowledge that men may have misunderstood its precepts? Yes, I agree with you (and the Qu'ran) that there is to be no compulsion in religion. But I wonder why the Palestinians want to force an Islamic state. Wouldn't this compel the people to be Islamic? Where is the freedom to be led as God guides men if a particular religion (Islam, in this case) is forced on the people. Then if the Shariah is not infallable, then what if the Islamic state tends on believing in the ideals that Osama bin laden enforces? The Palestinians would then be forced to be terrorists. I also wish to hear Yusuf's views as well. I wish he would post more often. I can't wait to listen to his latest interview. We probably have to wait another week before the archive is posted. (There was a two week interval between what was posted and Yusuf's date of the interview.) Peace, and thanks for discussing this in a friendly manner.  Faithfullight |
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Post by Aisha on May 30, 2003 10:53:39 GMT -5
Do most Muslims think that the Shariah is not infallable? Do they realize that men may have interpreted the Qu'ran in their "own views" rather than God's intended guidance? Do they actually acknowledge that men may have misunderstood its precepts? Faithful, Muslims understand that translations of the Qur'an can have errors but the original text is supposed to be infallible, that Muhammad (saws) made sure that the revelations' text was written down word-for-word as he heard it revealed. We do understand that people misinterpret things and misunderstand things, that is why there are so many schools of thought in Islam, because there are different viewpoints about issues Yes, I agree with you (and the Qu'ran) that there is to be no compulsion in religion. But I wonder why the Palestinians want to force an Islamic state. Wouldn't this compel the people to be Islamic? Where is the freedom to be led as God guides men if a particular religion (Islam, in this case) is forced on the people. Then if the Shariah is not infallable, then what if the Islamic state tends on believing in the ideals that Osama bin laden enforces? The Palestinians would then be forced to be terrorists. Faithful, they are initiating Islamic law guidelines, but they can't force anyone to be Muslims. It is just the governments' law that will use the Islamic system of justice. In many Muslim countries Islam sets the guidelines for the laws, but people are still free to be Christians and Jews. In Jordan there are churches all over the place and the Christians are free to practice their religion without abuse. The government can use Islamic law to set the standards for law but they are not supposed to impose the religion on people and demand they practice it. This is against the Qur'an.I also wish to hear Yusuf's views as well. I wish he would post more often. I can't wait to listen to his latest interview. We probably have to wait another week before the archive is posted. (There was a two week interval between what was posted and Yusuf's date of the interview.) I would give anything to sit and have a chat with Yusuf...a good discussion on various things. Peace, and thanks for discussing this in a friendly manner. Faithfullight |
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Post by faithfullight on May 30, 2003 12:08:48 GMT -5
Faithful, Muslims understand that translations of the Qur'an can have errors but the original text is supposed to be infallible, that Muhammad (saws) made sure that the revelations' text was written down word-for-word as he heard it revealed. We do understand that people misinterpret things and misunderstand things, that is why there are so many schools of thought in Islam, because there are different viewpoints about issues I understand that people may disagree, but they should refrain themselves from aggressive violence because of differing opinions. Has anyone in the past or present (since the Prophet Muhammad) been known to have received any revelations? This does not indicate another prophet, because I understand that the Qu'ran guides all people to listen to revelations and to share them with others. I am wondering if anyone has come forward and shared their revelations instead of trying to interpret the Qu'ran? But if there is the possibility of misunderstanding the concepts of the Qu'ran then there also may be wrong judgements done in upholding their interpretation of the Islamic law. Also, there are times when the government's law will overlap the religious practice. Is the government tolerant enough to permit a person's religious practice to have preference over the government's rules and regulations? I don't feel that they will be as free to practice their freedom of religion as the United States is, and even there are problems within the US about where to draw the line. Thanks, and peace, Faithfullight |
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Post by Aisha on May 30, 2003 12:30:16 GMT -5
I haven't heard of anyone coming forward to discuss revelations in the Muslim religion. I don't really mix with people at the mosques much so I would not know. You know, maybe you can post this question at one of the Islamic websites. (Maybe that site 100 1 Dreamer posted a link to on the animal thread will help...http://www.islamonline.net) It would make for some interesting discussion and you will find many there who have more knowledge than I. But some folks will get hostile. I don't know why people have to get so mad about different interpretations and questions. I think sometimes people just want to fight about something.
~~
And there is a big misunderstanding about interpretation of Islamic laws. That is partially why the terrorists do the things they do. The misinterpret things and twist them around so that they will mean what they want them to so they have an excuse to hurt people.
And we are blessed to be in the USA where we can question things without having to go to jail. In some countries we can't question anything without fear. Yes, you have some here who will get mean about differing opinions, but Mr. Bush isn't going to put us in front of a firing squad because we question something in the Bible.
Love,
A'isha
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Post by faithfullight on May 30, 2003 13:00:38 GMT -5
I haven't heard of anyone coming forward to discuss revelations in the Muslim religion. I don't really mix with people at the mosques much so I would not know. You know, maybe you can post this question at one of the Islamic websites. (Maybe that site 100 1 Dreamer posted a link to on the animal thread will help...http://www.islamonline.net) It would make for some interesting discussion and you will find many there who have more knowledge than I. But some folks will get hostile. I don't know why people have to get so mad about different interpretations and questions. I think sometimes people just want to fight about something. I'm not wanting to get into any arguments. I'm just trying to help figure out why there is so much violence in some followers of Islam. Islam was supposed to reflect peace -- what happened! And there is a big misunderstanding about interpretation of Islamic laws. That is partially why the terrorists do the things they do. The misinterpret things and twist them around so that they will mean what they want them to so they have an excuse to hurt people. Do you see why it may be a mistake to force an Islamic state? God help us so that the aggressive view is not followed or permitted to continue. And we are blessed to be in the USA where we can question things without having to go to jail. In some countries we can't question anything without fear. Yes, you have some here who will get mean about differing opinions, but Mr. Bush isn't going to put us in front of a firing squad because we question something in the Bible. Love, A'isha Amen! love, Faithfullight |
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Post by Turan on May 31, 2003 14:47:34 GMT -5
It is one thing to talk from the books one has read and another to know people in life. I speak from books, not knowledge. Implementing any ideal is a chancy thing seeing as men are capable of error. (thanks FFL for catching my brain fart)
I haven't noticed an imposed regime based on any ideal being more or less prone to violence. It seems more based on the intentions of the people who wield the power, and the people who put up with them.
Turan
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Post by faithfullight on May 31, 2003 19:49:46 GMT -5
It is one thing to talk from the books one has read and another to know people in life. I speak from books, not knowledge. Implementing any ideal is a chancy thing seeing as men are "infallable". I take it that you meant to say that men are capable of error. I haven't noticed an imposed regime based on any ideal being more or less prone to violence. It seems more based on the intentions of the people who wield the power, and the people who put up with them. Turan People have good intentions, but the ones who rule over them do not always choose to do the best for the people. Rather, an evil ruler gets some type of sick pleasure in forcing others to serve him as if he deserves to be worshiped. Yuck! Phoey! An evil ruler is revealed by his arrogance and vain glory. People are people and rulers are supposed to serve the people. Why should any one person be glorified above any other? It is when a leader becomes obsessed with his/her power that they become corrupt. I pray that peace will be found for all people. I pray that all divisions of people will open their eyes to see that we all share a common brotherhood to mankind. Peace, Faithfullight |
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Post by Vivian on May 31, 2003 19:55:30 GMT -5
I take it that you meant to say that men are capable of error. People have good intentions, but the ones who rule over them do not always choose to do the best for the people. Rather, an evil ruler gets some type of sick pleasure in forcing others to serve him as if he deserves to be worshiped. Yuck! Phoey! An evil ruler is revealed by his arrogance and vain glory. People are people and rulers are supposed to serve the people. Why should any one person be glorified above any other? It is when a leader becomes obsessed with his/her power that they become corrupt. I pray that peace will be found for all people. I pray that all divisions of people will open their eyes to see that we all share a common brotherhood to mankind. Peace, Faithfullight How very true, Faithful!! How very true! And what better example do we have to follow than Yusuf! I hope some day, everyone will see that as well! Peace,Vivian |
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Post by Aisha on May 31, 2003 22:18:29 GMT -5
I have often wondered if many of the tyrants like Suddam Hussein originally started out with good intentions, then when they become rulers the became consumed with power and stopped at nothing to show their power and hang on to it. A similar thing is when some people come into wealth. Often a person will acquire some money and change to become greedy for more money and become snobbish. It is almost like some disease takes over. They forget where they came from, how they got to where they are, and how they felt before.
You know, you can learn a lot from the books, listening to God, experiencing life and observing humans. I think it takes a bit of each thing to live life to its fullest. Some people gain insight from books, some from experiences, some from listening to God speak to them in their hearts and some from observation of life in general. I just hope to learn from all of them.
Love,
A'isha
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Post by Vivian on Jun 1, 2003 15:15:02 GMT -5
Something tells me that SADDAM NEVER had good intentions!! Someone, somewhere would know and say something!
Peace,Vivian
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Post by cristalina on Jun 2, 2003 7:11:32 GMT -5
Unfortunately there have always been tyrants like Saddam, what about Idi Amin, now living a good life I believe in Saudi and Mugabee (sp?) I hear today he has had the opposition jailed.
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Post by Vivian on Jun 3, 2003 11:15:56 GMT -5
That is very true, Christilina!! And while the guilty go free, innocent people are locked up and accused of horrible things! DARN SHAME!!
Peace,Vivian
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Post by Aisha on Jun 3, 2003 13:13:53 GMT -5
Vivian, one great thing about the Islamic beliefs is that they give us some hope that the evil will get their just rewards on Judgement Day and the good will be rewarded for their hardships. If people like Suddam don't get punished on Earth then they will get their dues when they face Allah (swt). They can't fool God. Love, A'isha |
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Post by kareema113 on Jun 3, 2003 23:03:07 GMT -5
Salaam alaykom and greetings,
I believe this type of 'situational amnesia' is part of human nature.
How many times have you all observed the workplace phenomenon I am about to describe?
1. Co-workers grouse about how current supervisor has little understanding of their particular situation.
2. Current supervisor leaves position and someone from within their department is promoted to supervisor.
3. Co-workers rejoice that their cohort will at last understand their lot and make changes accordingly. Newly promoted supervisor may even make promises to this effect to his former comrades.
4. Co-workers grouse about how current supervisor has little understanding of their particular situation.
Peace,
kareema
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Post by Aisha on Jun 3, 2003 23:36:53 GMT -5
Kareema, it sounds very similar. Something like that happened with a friend of mine. She was promoted and turned into a tyrant doing the things she complained about when she was on the same job level....LOLOL
Love,
A'isha
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Post by faithfullight on Jun 4, 2003 10:57:17 GMT -5
It is sad that people allow power to get to their head. They get blinded by their own self-glory. This is the type of education that people need to deter arrogance and self focus from getting out of hand. That is so immature!
I wish that educational systems implemented social skills in much more detail. The world doesn't revolve around one person. We are all a piece of the puzzle to the whole picture. One piece is not above the other, and one piece doesn't contain the whole picture. Any missing piece will leave a hole and ruin the picture.
Faithfullight
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Post by faithfullight on Jun 4, 2003 11:29:04 GMT -5
A'isha wrote:
From watching the biography of Saddam, I don't think that he did start out with good intentions. He encouraged his sons to be brutal as well.
I read an article a few days ago, I wish I could find it again. It was about some Iraqi people voicing that they wanted the U.S. out of their country. One of the leaders of one of the military groups said that he had six daughters and that he would send them as a bomb if the Americans didn't leave. Goodness! How many Iraqis think that suicide bombers are doing what is right? How awful his daughters must feel to know that their life doesn't mean anything more than a walking device to kill others. Are there any Iraqi military groups who do not condone this type of action? Do they all think this way?
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Post by Aisha on Jun 4, 2003 16:44:11 GMT -5
Faithful, being that I am almost totally immersed in the Arab community I can say that many people from Palestine and Iraq believe that when they or their kids strap bombs to themselves and blow up marketplaces and such they are going to become martyrs. They believe that Paradise is much better than this life and believe that by doing so they are serving Allah (swt) and are being martyrs. They are raised with this belief from the time they are in diapers. I am not saying this is a correct belief, it isn't ever right to commit suicide or needlessly take human life in any religion including Islam. But some people in Muslim countries truly believe they are doing the right thing and they do this. I wish they could see that it solves nothing at all and only makes the situation worse.
Love,
A'isha
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Post by faithfullight on Jun 4, 2003 17:29:17 GMT -5
Martyrdom does not mean to killl yourself on purpose to destroy another. Anyone who teaches this is not following the righteous path. They are following the path of destruction and they are leading people astray. Anyone who dies for the cause of God does not do so intentionally. It is because of the ways of this world that one gets killed. They are innocent of wrong doing and God will reward them.
God wants us to live in peace and harmony. His scriptures guide us to resolve our differences and find a compromise of peace. If we cannot find a solution, then we are to separate and we are not to kill the other unless it is in self defense or helping the weak, oppressed who need help. Thou shalt not kill (intentionally), but we do need to defend ourselves when someone attacks us. It is not honorable to blow up innocent people who are not doing any type of action of killing. These suicide bombers are murderers and they will not be rewarded for their crime when they reach heaven. They were mislead by errant leaders and for that, may God have mercy on their soul.
I think that communication and negotiation will get more things resolved than blowing each other up. I am happy to hear that the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas shook hands. I sure do hope we're on the road to recovery and peace.
Faithfullight
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