|
|
Post by downunder72 on Dec 20, 2010 11:40:03 GMT -5
Sorry, like me, I know everyones busy with the excitement of the up coming European tour, and understandably so, but Cat/ Yusufs right little finger quitar playing style has always fascinated me, and wondered if someone can shed some light on this.  I know this is not the right thread to mention this, and had trouble deciding were I should post this, and it may have been discussed before I joined Majicat. Well we have talked about his hair, eyes, teeth, and amoung other things, but have you noticed all the years as Cat/Yusuf, the way he strums his guitar? He never bends his right little finger. I think all, most artists I have seen strumming a guitar, have their little finger tucked in. I have tried the motion of strumming a make believe guitar in Yusufs manner, and it is very hard, my fingers cramp. Does anyone here who plays a guitar, plays in this style, or do you know if it is difficult to play a guitar in Cat/ Yusufs style? Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if it's because he lost his flexibality in the little finger due to an injury when he was a child? Sorry for going off topic, but I always wondered if others here have noticed this. |
|
|
|
Post by suncatcher on Dec 23, 2010 2:48:24 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this, watched videos of different guitar players, and decided that I really like Christina's thoughts on it from the Re: Your One Question For Yusuf thread, especially about the way some people drink a cup of tea: . . .its like when you drink a cup of tea you extend the pinky a bit .. but for strumming guitar sometimes the pinky gets in the way and by putting it out a bit it strengthens the strum .. and wrist! (from personal experience xoxox |
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Dec 23, 2010 10:12:58 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this, watched videos of different guitar players, and decided that I really like Christina's thoughts on it from the Re: Your One Question For Yusuf thread, especially about the way some people drink a cup of tea: . . .its like when you drink a cup of tea you extend the pinky a bit .. but for strumming guitar sometimes the pinky gets in the way and by putting it out a bit it strengthens the strum .. and wrist! (from personal experience xoxox Yes, a very good explaination as Christina speaks from personal experience. It pobably does strengthen the strum and wrist when playing the guitar, makes sense. |
|
|
|
Post by j180everly on Dec 23, 2010 17:16:32 GMT -5
Concerning C.S. strumming technique and the position of his little finger I think it's simply just his (great) style. But his picking technique seems to be more interesting: Usually a guitarist learns to assign each melody string the accordant finger. He uses just the forefinger for all melody strings. Seeing and hearing that he was switching between picking and strumming within a song I was also sure he can't use a pick and was always wondering how he still could get this clear strumming sound (strumming with fingers sounds different). Studying same live performances then I found out that for the picking parts he is able to "hide" the pick (plectrum) between middle and ring finger meanwhile and is able to switch extremely fast between picking and strumming. When the pick is placed between middle and ring finger you can't use them for picking just the forefinger is "free". Btw. I saw Neil Young using the same technique. I tried to show this also in my youtube video-cover of "Peace Train" www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTdgqGz6Vco |
|
|
|
Post by suncatcher on Dec 24, 2010 3:49:31 GMT -5
Fascinating explanation, j180everly. I just watched some videos of Yusuf playing, and I'm not quick enough to see the pick maneuver you describe, so I'll take your word for it. I enjoyed your version of Peace Train. You have a very good voice. |
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Dec 24, 2010 11:55:14 GMT -5
Thankyou j180everly for the detailed techniques of strumming and plucking a guitar, a mind opener. Then Yusufs technique and style is quite unique, and very well excersised. I will be more observant of Yusufs guitar playing next time. Thankyou for your link, appreciated, and enjoyed your video. Also, thankyou for taking the time to explain. |
|
|
|
Post by j180everly on Dec 25, 2010 15:12:12 GMT -5
suncatcher & downunder72 Thank you. I can understand, it's hard to see whether he uses a pick or not. That's why I was wondering all the time about the sound and was studying all available live videos - even in slow motion  Btw. best to watch in the BBC '71 concert: For example when he plays "Maybe you're right" on the piano you can see he places a white pick on the right top of the piano. When he stands up to return to the guitar he takes it.
|
|
|
|
Post by suncatcher on Dec 25, 2010 15:36:39 GMT -5
suncatcher & downunder72 Thank you. I can understand, it's hard to see whether he uses a pick or not. That's why I was wondering all the time about the sound and was studying all available live videos - even in slow motion Btw. best to watch in the BBC '71 concert: For example when he plays "Maybe you're right" on the piano you can see he places a white pick on the right top of the piano. When he stands up to return to the guitar he takes it. Hi, j180everly, When I watched the videos a couple of days ago, I watched on YouTube, and I didn't see any way to play them in slow motion. I did see the technique when you used it in your very nice cover of "Peace Train" so I know what to look for. I'm gonna check out the BBC '71 concert and "Maybe You're Right." I think I remember Cat putting the pick on the top of the piano, from when I watched a long time ago . . . |
|
|
|
Post by richina on Dec 31, 2010 10:24:48 GMT -5
Very interesting and enlightening....thanks for this wonderful bit of knowlege! ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by hardheadedman on Jan 7, 2011 3:55:40 GMT -5
Concerning C.S. strumming technique and the position of his little finger I think it's simply just his (great) style. But his picking technique seems to be more interesting: Usually a guitarist learns to assign each melody string the accordant finger. He uses just the forefinger for all melody strings. Seeing and hearing that he was switching between picking and strumming within a song I was also sure he can't use a pick and was always wondering how he still could get this clear strumming sound (strumming with fingers sounds different). Studying same live performances then I found out that for the picking parts he is able to "hide" the pick (plectrum) between middle and ring finger meanwhile and is able to switch extremely fast between picking and strumming. When the pick is placed between middle and ring finger you can't use them for picking just the forefinger is "free". Btw. I saw Neil Young using the same technique. I tried to show this also in my youtube video-cover of "Peace Train" www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTdgqGz6VcoInteresting! If you can also notice, that Yusuf almost never played Barre chords on stage, and if you review his live performances, especially of 'Heard-Headed Woman' or 'Moonshadow' which stand on an F# and Bm chords, you'll find his unique 'Barre-free' style to play. He never used his index as a bar, and covers only four chords when playing the Bm for example (like this xx4432). I don't now if all guitarists use this technique to avoid unwanted dissonant while playing the somehow difficult Barre chords on stage. I also wonder if Yusuf used this kind of maneuvers to play chords in the recording sessions. Many Thanks,,, |
|
|
|
Post by Monty Python on Jan 7, 2011 5:58:56 GMT -5
Concerning C.S. strumming technique and the position of his little finger I think it's simply just his (great) style. But his picking technique seems to be more interesting: Usually a guitarist learns to assign each melody string the accordant finger. He uses just the forefinger for all melody strings. Seeing and hearing that he was switching between picking and strumming within a song I was also sure he can't use a pick and was always wondering how he still could get this clear strumming sound (strumming with fingers sounds different). Studying same live performances then I found out that for the picking parts he is able to "hide" the pick (plectrum) between middle and ring finger meanwhile and is able to switch extremely fast between picking and strumming. When the pick is placed between middle and ring finger you can't use them for picking just the forefinger is "free". Btw. I saw Neil Young using the same technique. I tried to show this also in my youtube video-cover of "Peace Train" www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTdgqGz6VcoInteresting! If you can also notice, that Yusuf almost never played Barre chords on stage, and if you review his live performances, especially of 'Heard-Headed Woman' or 'Moonshadow' which stand on an F# and Bm chords, you'll find his unique 'Barre-free' style to play. He never used his index as a bar, and covers only four chords when playing the Bm for example (like this xx4432). I don't now if all guitarists use this technique to avoid unwanted dissonant while playing the somehow difficult Barre chords on stage. I also wonder if Yusuf used this kind of maneuvers to play chords in the recording sessions. Many Thanks,,, Many guitarists (me included!) often play barre chords with the bottom 4 notes, as you've described. Depending on the song, it can often just be easier - in a situation with a full band, the bass notes of the chord will be covered anyway. Sometimes a song only requires the treble notes - reggae songs are a good example. I'll do both, just depends on the song. Another technique is to play the bass note with the thumb over the top of the guitar neck - Jimi Hendrix used to do this quite a lot. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2011 19:42:50 GMT -5
Another technique is to play the bass note with the thumb over the top of the guitar neck - Jimi Hendrix used to do this quite a lot. That's what I do. I've never been able to do a real barre. Fortunately, I have large hands so that helps! As for the pinky, mine is always on the go when I play, so much so that people think I actually use it to play. I wonder if Yusuf's little finger is up when he drinks tea. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by kaytwo on Feb 16, 2011 12:18:30 GMT -5
Amazing. I remember this subject being exhausted for pages at another site many years ago. Yusuf must be quite bewildered/amused by the excruciating detail to which we as fans, explore these details. My observation? He has a history of playing jumbo Gibsons with a very thick pic sometimes tucked between fingers.(not that uncommon among flatpickers). He also used to play very hard and clear developing a very strong wrist and index finger. He never plays with his pinky, but his ring finger is very strong from holding the pic and alternating in and out of play. What does it all mean? We'll never know.  |
|
|
|
Post by suncatcher on Feb 16, 2011 14:08:35 GMT -5
Amazing. I remember this subject being exhausted for pages at another site many years ago. Yusuf must be quite bewildered/amused by the excruciating detail to which we as fans, explore these details. My observation? He has a history of playing jumbo Gibsons with a very thick pic sometimes tucked between fingers.(not that uncommon among flatpickers). He also used to play very hard and clear developing a very strong wrist and index finger. He never plays with his pinky, but his ring finger is very strong from holding the pic and alternating in and out of play. What does it all mean? We'll never know. Your post is so interesting, Kaytwo. The Gibson J-200 and Black Everly Flattop come to mind, though I guess the Everly was a bit thinner than a regular jumbo. And I was just reading something very similar in [a href=" That Guitar Blog:"] That Guitar Blog:[/a] Cat Stevens has a lot of great acoustic songs and I just love his arrangements along side with his other guitarist, Alun Davies.
They both played Gibson guitars. A lot of Cat’s songs have a very tight rhythm pattern and having Alun Davies taking care of the arpeggios and licks, cat usually strummed whole chords with a pick in a very percussive way. One of his favorite guitars was a black Everly Brothers model of Gibson, which is kind of a rare model and has the smaller waist of grand auditorium guitars. Old dry Mahogany, smaller than a Jumbo Gibson, although a little thin sounding. They are both great strummers (Bob Dylan used a small body Gibson Nick Lukas model in his early work besides the J-50) and have a very balanced sound with out too much bass, which is good for playing whole chords without separating the bass lines too much. Maybe wondering about how a gifted musician creates a sound so magnificent that it takes us to another world simply means that we're striving to discover his key to heaven. A worthwhile quest. |
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Feb 16, 2011 18:37:54 GMT -5
- Kaytwo, thankyou for your explaination on Yusufs strumming style. Not surprised to know this has been discussed on another site, I guess it must have been discussion by fellow musicians. There must have been many interesting views on the subject. Anyway like you said, maybe we will never know, but that's what you call his majic. - Sun, another very good choice of video to display Yusufs strumming dynamics. Yes, listening to Yusufs music takes me staight to heaven, even without the key. |
|
|
|
Post by suncatcher on Feb 17, 2011 16:40:55 GMT -5
- Kaytwo, thankyou for your explaination on Yusufs strumming style. Not surprised to know this has been discussed on another site, I guess it must have been discussion by fellow musicians. There must have been many interesting views on the subject. Anyway like you said, maybe we will never know, but that's what you call his majic. - Sun, another very good choice of video to display Yusufs strumming dynamics. Yes, listening to Yusufs music takes me staight to heaven, even without the key. You're so right, Vicki - "straight to heaven, even without the key." Wish I could take credit for the choice of video, but the blogger is the one who chose it. I think he wanted to show Cat's playing style and the Black Everly. The way Yusuf holds out his little finger is such an interesting detail that you noticed, Vicki. You're always so observant and I like that you open my eyes to things like these as well. Thank you! Made me wonder if this is what happens to a guitar if the little finger is not kept straight out. Maybe Yusuf is protecting his finger and his guitar from damage. |
|
purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
|
Post by purplemoon on Feb 17, 2011 18:01:54 GMT -5
I tend to do that as well. In my case, it is because I play classical,
Spanish guitars, with a four finger plucking technique. The thumb
is used to pluck the top three base strings. The first three fingers are assigned
to the three tremble strings. To pick effecitively with the ring finger, you must
lift the pinky at least a bit.
What was Cat Steven's first guitar? Acoustic? Classical?
|
|
|
|
Post by aurarisma on Feb 17, 2011 22:56:46 GMT -5
If anyone has gotten close or seen a video of him playing the piano his technique is very similar with his pinky. Gee, I sure miss those unique pinky rings he had!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Feb 18, 2011 9:28:46 GMT -5
I tend to do that as well. In my case, it is because I play classical, Spanish guitars, with a four finger plucking technique. The thumb is used to pluck the top three base strings. The first three fingers are assigned to the three tremble strings. To pick effecitively with the ring finger, you must lift the pinky at least a bit. What was Cat Steven's first guitar? Acoustic? Classical? -According to to George Brown, his father bought him an italian accoustic guitar for 8 pounds. -ref: page 9, from 'CAT STEVENS BIOGRAPHY' by George Brown. -Purplemoon have you started working on any of Cat /Yusuf guitar tabs? Do you also play the piano? |
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Feb 18, 2011 9:51:53 GMT -5
[/quote] Made me wonder if this is what happens to a guitar if the little finger is not kept straight out. Maybe Yusuf is protecting his finger and his guitar from damage. [/quote] Sun, that guitar for Glen is, A)- alot of sentimental value to Glen, or B)- can't afford another guitar, or C)- hasn't found a guitar that has equal sound quality Seriously, I see what you mean. Neverless the battered guitar in the video clip still sounds great, two holes, scratches and all. ;D Great performance, great find Sun |
|
|
|
Post by downunder72 on Feb 18, 2011 10:02:05 GMT -5
If anyone has gotten close or seen a video of him playing the piano his technique is very similar with his pinky. Gee, I sure miss those unique pinky rings he had!!!! Yes Christina I have noticed, and I think Sun also posted a photo recently on 'FAVE PHOTO' thread of Cat sititng at the piano, with his guitar.  You can see that that pinky technique very clearly. It appears Cat was working on some song and cords. I think Yoriyos has a thing for those pinky rings now. |
|
purplemoon
Majik of Majik Member
Growing old is necessary but growing up is optional.
Posts: 483
|
Post by purplemoon on Feb 18, 2011 16:04:31 GMT -5
-According to to George Brown, his father bought him an italian accoustic guitar for 8 pounds. -ref: page 9, from 'CAT STEVENS BIOGRAPHY' by George Brown. Well, perhaps he began by learning four finger technique on the acoustic guitar. I'm into the piano at present. I like to start my day with a mug of coffee playing "Silent Sunrise," finishing with a verse of my own "... For your best work is now begun." I'm far too lazy to learn someone else's score. I just listen to the music and work out an arrangement that's comfortable for me --provided the chords aren't too complex. Most of the early Cat Stevens songs have a simple chord structure. Some of the jazz infused songs are more complex ( ....Eb dim 9 ?? ..... tearing hair out .....) I'm trying to learn "Maybe You're Right, Maybe You're Wrong" --- I just love the ornamentations-- but the chord structure is a major struggle. (And I won't be happy until I find new lyrics.) Some of his music, like "Edge of Existence" is beyond my ken. I'm not a musician. I am often inspired, in one way or another, to respond to Cat Stevens music by writing my own lyrics or verse. |
|
|
|
Post by sabina on Feb 19, 2011 13:17:21 GMT -5
:)Hi you talented folk!I have no idea about all this but I was listening to this (oh my, the depth of feeling here) and saw that strumming technique you are discussing.........I think.(especially 1;48).
.
|
|
|
|
Post by drathbun on Sept 5, 2011 19:05:58 GMT -5
...then I found out that for the picking parts he is able to "hide" the pick (plectrum) between middle and ring finger meanwhile and is able to switch extremely fast between picking and strumming. When the pick is placed between middle and ring finger you can't use them for picking just the forefinger is "free". This is called "palming the pick", a technique that many guitarist who fingerstyle and strum in the same song acquire for live performance. The best in the business at palming the pick is Brian Setzer IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by werequat on May 3, 2020 22:22:40 GMT -5
Anyone notice that he doesn't use his pinky when he plays piano, either?
|
|
You can see that that pinky technique very clearly. It appears Cat was working on some song and cords. 