A Is For Allah

[arne]

Maybe not all of you know that song of the album with the same name, but now I detected, that the video is online on YouTube (sorry, if this was mentioned before, but anyway there is no thread about it). It is a song for children, teaching the Arabic alphabets by words, which - by the way - explain the Islam:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVi2uiDpkc

When I heard (and saw) it the first time i few days ago, I was really overwhelmed by the style, the words and the entire content. I have never seen something so simple and beautiful about the core of Islamic faith and the Arabic alphabet before. I really had to smile, when Yusuf started to mention Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam and always singing the Shahadah in between. It is a wonderful lesson - even for an adult Muslim.

Well, it is a bit irritating, that Yusuf is not using the real Arab names of the letters but call them consequently [...] "ka'', "la", "ma", "na" [...] (instead of "kaf", "lam", "mim", "nun"). But I must admit that I noted it first after the second listening, because first of all, I was reading, what Yusuf wrote in his own handwriting.

However, there is a Wikipedia article about the album, and maybe someone, who knows more than just that one song, can contribute to it:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_is_for_Allah

[arne]

ladyd said:

Hi arne, I love this video too - you said you were reading what he is writing - what is he writing?

Well, it all begins with the word Allah (God in Arabic).

The next word we see, is Khatim, the seal of the prophethood, given to Muhammad (you hear it in the text).

Third is Zakat to pure our greed, when we give our money to those in need

Fourth is Salat, for when we pray facing Him, everyday, facing Him, till we meet our Lord

Fith is a little bit tricky, because not so close-up, but it is Dhil, a shadow (after removing the blotting paper)

Sixth is Qur'an, the book of God (from two angels), quickly followd by...

Seventh the single letter Kaf for Kalima, a word we're taught to teach us what is good and what is not. (After this scene we see the first time Yusuf's eyes)

Eigth is not written by Yusuf but obviousely from another print. However, it is the "heart" of the clip: and La is for the beginning of La ilaha illa'allah

Nineth comes the name of the messenger Muhammadu r-rasulu- llah. La ilaha illa-llah, Muhammadan-rasulu-llah, (continuing writing, while singing) Allah, there's only one God and Muhammad is His messenger. Allah, la ilaha illa-llah.

As said, this must be consirdered as the heart of the clip and can not be topped, so we are on that level and it follows...

Tenth is the single letter Waw, when Yusuf helps the boy writing it to the line Wudu before we pray to help us wash our sins away

Eleventh is the last (28 th) letter Ya representing Yawmu d-Deen (the final Day of Judgement).

Now the boy writes in Latin letters Jesus, and Yusuf shows to write his Arabic Name Isa. (For some reason, we see now the word Kalimah (from that Kaf-line) on the table)

The same happens with Moses - Musa.

Now the boy is back in his library, and the very last shot is again the handwritten word Allah.

[arne]

Kareema, you are Arab? I don't know, how it is learned among Arabs, but in Germany, we learn it with the real names. This is maybe due to the fact, that our ears and tongues can not distinguish some letters from their sound, when beginning learning Arabic. (i.e. sin and sad sound "the same").

Yes, and I am also pretty sure, that this little piece of teaching works very well as a reminder to each Muslim, to make live and thinking a bit more easy and happy.

[arne]

LadyD,

Thanks for your question, it opened my eyes, to think more about the message of this film. I think, it is also addressed to not-Muslims to find themselfs included as brothers and sisters in the last - very haunting - part as a reminder, that we all are believers in God, as all other messengers told us before.

Thus, all messengers of God told us not only to believe in Him, but also do the good things. And the word Kalimah along with the names of Jesus and Moses on the table seems to me as a direct hint by Yusuf, that we all (Muslims, Christians, Jews, ...) should remember, that God's religion existed from the beginning, at that He always sent His messengers to tell us, what is good, and what is not.

[Turan]

I have been tenitivily using this song as a way to learn to pronounce the letter sounds. But, as Yusuf is not a native speaker or Arabic, I have been very cautious.

It seems very important to learn the sounds, and to learn how to hear them, before one learns how they are represented on paper. I am not sure how the letter names plays into that. I assume the sound used in the name is consistent with how it is used in other words as well.
An arabic friend of mine gets all irritiated when he sees transliterations that are writing out dialect essentially instead of staying true to the written word. A pet peeve is 'ir' instead of 'al'. The idea being that it will interfere with learning to read classical arabic easily.

Thanks for pointing out the video and giving a guide for watching it
A is for Allah is a fun song to sing.

[arne]

turan said:

I have been tenitivily using this song as a way to learn to pronounce the letter sounds. But, as Yusuf is not a native speaker or Arabic, I have been very cautious.

I am neither Arabic native speaker, but I know it so far to say, that Yusuf can pronounce it perfectly well.

I also think, that the aim of the song is not, to teach Arabic phonetics, but the alphabet (the order of the letters). It does not substitute lessons in phonetics and phonology at all. But if you had them, you will hear, that Yusuf had them too and knows how to speak Arabic.

Thus, this song is a very good educational media and not at all contraproductive for further studies. (In my humble oppinion)

[Turan]

arne said:

Thus, this song is a very good educational media and not at all contraproductive for further studies. (In my humble oppinion)

Thanks for your humble opinion.
You know I never had thought to ask an arab if it was a good way to learn the sounds. But truily to learn a foreign tongue in isolation is fraught with error. O well.

[arne]

turan said:

A pet peeve is 'ir' instead of 'al'.

This I don't understand.

Let's take the Bismillah:

bi-(i)smi_(i)llâhi_(i)r-rahmâni_(i)r-rahiim(i)

This reflects somehow the Arabic grammar and Qur'anic pronounciation (including the writing with vocal signs, but not describing the special rules of /l/ in "Allah" and vowel surroundings with H). I was showing it with brackets now, where vowels are dropped.

In Arabic writing, this is written like:

bismi (al)llâhi (al)rrahmâni (al)rrahiimi

(this in the brackets is written but numb and thus ruled by the surrounding)

Ofcourse, you can also write it like this:

bi-Ism Allah al-Rahman al-Rahim

But then you have to know the rules, how to pronounce this.

[Turan]

My understanding on the difference in approaches has to do with how literate is the intent.
Is the intent to teach non speakers to be able to parrot though the arabic or is it to introduce an opening to the whole of arabic literature?

I am told the real problem lies in that scholars have not standardized how to transliterate arabic vowels with english vowels.

[arne]

turan said:

I am told the real problem lies in that scholars have not standardized how to transliterate arabic vowels with english vowels.

Yes, that is also a problem in French. German speakers suffer under this situation, because in our phonetic system you can very well only use a, i and u for arab translitteration or transcription. But even given this fact, it is normal in German to write e.g. Mohammed instead of Muhammad, and extra confusing is Achmed instead of Ahmad, although the h in Muhammad and Ahmad is the same.

However, there is a standardised translitteration in German, called DMG (Deutsche Morgenländische Gesellschaft - German Oriental Society), as you can see in this table:

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabisches_Alphabet

But the best is ofcourse to learn the Arabic alphabet and use it. By the way, it makes really fun to write Arabic. It is so beautiful.

[kareema113]

arne said:

Kareema, you are Arab? I don't know, how it is learned among Arabs, but in Germany, we learn it with the real names. This is maybe due to the fact, that our ears and tongues can not distinguish some letters from their sound, when beginning learning Arabic. (i.e. sin and sad sound "the same").

Yes, and I am also pretty sure, that this little piece of teaching works very well as a reminder to each Muslim, to make live and thinking a bit more easy and happy.

No, I'm not Arab... I'm a convert of Scottish/Welsh heritage.

I think another thing to remember about this song and how it illustrates Arabic letter sounds instead of letter names is that when Br. Yusuf wrote this, he'd only been Muslim for a few years. And he doesn't speak Arabic even now.

His pronunciation is excellent, I've been told though.

kareema

[Turan]

What is actually coming out of the mouth is one layer of concern, phonetic spelling. Very useful with in certain limitations. However in learning to read and write in english we are taught to sound out words and to deal with the differences between spoken english and literate english. We are taught literate english, for that opens the doors to a vast sea of literature.

So the questions comes to, is the intent to make recitation easier, or to open the door to a vast sea of arabic literature?

To illustrate my point somewhat. A freind of mine is a Scottish convert to Islam busily learning arabic etc. He works for a Turkish Islamic scholar. The scholar is trying to translate to english a work he did in Turkish analyzing an Islamic scholar who wrote in arabic. My friend is puzzling through two or three varietys of transliteration between the 3 languages in an effort to make sensible english. Any such deviations in the transliterations that go to spelling spoken arabic or turkish or english versus literate spellings confuse the effort greatly.

Transliteration is the system of translating letters of one system to another using combinations of letters or numbers of one to replace the other. Where the system is purily one of sounds being written is with Chinese etc. (and there is huge controvercies over those systems of transliterations as well)

It is an interesting topic to think over. I am sure that training the ear and mouth are of first concern, before learning to read.

[Huru]

I remember we used to routinely butcher the Arabic language while "sufi dancing" (Dances of Universal Peace) many years ago, and it's actually still going on today. I cringe when I think of some of those transgressions! (Not to mention that the meaning can change and it can be disastrous!) Cultural accents do play a role, so this is also somewhat of a subjective point but still, pronounciation is so important. It would seem the answer to your question is both, Turan. Both easier recitation and opening doors. When I was learning turkish many years ago (sadly no longer remember enough to be fluent), it was so much easier to listen and repeat than to read. 'Course then there is the fact that arabic and turkish are so foreign to our tongue that it causes the natives to roll on the floor laughing when you try to say even one sentence in their language. ;D

[Turan]

O yes, I know the Dances of Universal Peace. They invite me to join them sometimes, and I am tempted but never get it together to go. Besides my conversations with them haven't left me impressed with more than that they mean well. A very fine attribute indeed, but I got bored talking to them.

Your story reminds of a pattern I like to knit around the top of sweaters and socks. I was told it said 'Allah' and was copied from an ancient sock found buried in Damascus (the oldest knitting is a sock found under an ancient markeplace in the Middle East dating back to Mohammad's time) . I wondered abit about the pattern and asked if that is what it really said. Welllll..... the original pattern may have. But having now been simplified by a non arabic reader it stutters with an "A". "But pretty, go ahead and use it, the intentions are good. ;D"

The answer is probably in how easy is it to switch from phonetic spelling to the real spelling. I find myself wondering if this kind of change is not a kind of undercutting of the universalness classical arabic. Certainly if this is used in dealing with scholarly works it creates confusion and interferes in the transmission of knowledge.

On the Bismillah thread, when I had found the written lyrics I was puzzled. "What did Bismillahir mean? What does the suffix 'ir' mean? How was the familiar phrase 'Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim' meaning altered by this change to 'Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim'?" To me it would have been alot simpler to keep to the spellings that corrospond with the written arabic. I expect there to be a difference in spoken and written language.

[Huru]

Hi Turan, You could make a biz out of those arabic edgings, I'm sure!

Kani Karaca (pronounced "Kah-ni KaraJAH"), a very famous and sublime hafiz from Turkey, used to sing ir-rahman, ir-rahim.... I think the use might be colloquial.... maybe somebody here can enlighten us. If you ever get a chance to listen to Kani Karaca, do so. I just found a bunch of his recordings online, truly amazing and also if anyone has suggestion about other superior hafiz, please enlighten us. Thank you!

[Huru]

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out, and PM you for details.

Kani Karaca's style was also quite nasal, and I have noticed that other hafiz (and muezzin) are nasal as well. There are few things more sublime than a really good Hafiz! (note to the unfamiliar: Hafiz is the term used by Muslims for people who have completely memorized the Qur'an)

[arne]

turan said:

On the Bismillah thread, when I had found the written lyrics I was puzzled. "What did Bismillahir mean? What does the suffix 'ir' mean?

There is no such ending. Let's read it word by word

bi = by
ism = name
Allâh = God
rahmân = beneficent
rahiim = mercyful

bi-ism assimilates in both writing and pronounciation to bism = in the name

When you want to say "In the Name of God", it is a genitive construction ("in God's name"). The Arabic genitive ending is -i.

Thus: bismi Allâh But now, another rule occures, namely the assimilation of the vowel in the article al- (Allâh is, grammatically seen, al-llâh) to the preciding one.

Thus: bismi-llâh

But the genitive construction is extended: "in God's, the beneficent's, the mercyful's name", thus more -i suffixes are added and more assimilations happen:

bismi-llâhi al rahmân becomes bismi-llâhi-l-rahmân

And yet another rule: R is a solar letter ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_letters ), to which the l in the article assimilates to the same letter: bismi-llâhi-r-rahmân

And now, it's up to you, to make the last step and add al-Rahiim

[Turan]

arne said:

turan said:

On the Bismillah thread, when I had found the written lyrics I was puzzled. "What did Bismillahir mean? What does the suffix 'ir' mean?

There is no such ending. Let's read it word by word

bi = by
ism = name
Allâh = God
rahmân = beneficent
rahiim = mercyful

bi-ism assimilates in both writing and pronounciation to bism = in the name

When you want to say "In the Name of God", it is a genitive construction ("in God's name"). The Arabic genitive ending is -i.

Thus: bismi Allâh But now, another rule occures, namely the assimilation of the vowel in the article al- (Allâh is, grammatically seen, al-llâh) to the preciding one.

Thus: bismi-llâh

But the genitive construction is extended: "in God's, the beneficent's, the mercyful's name", thus more -i suffixes are added and more assimilations happen:

bismi-llâhi al rahmân becomes bismi-llâhi-l-rahmân

And yet another rule: R is a solar letter ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_letters ), to which the l in the article assimilates to the same letter: bismi-llâhi-r-rahmân

And now, it's up to you, to make the last step and add al-Rahiim

O thankyou! for showing me the logical progression.
Hmmm, I never thought of it as extending the genitive case. I suppose that makes sense though.

[Turan]

I just realized we have been discussing the pros and cons of transcription versus transliteration.
;D

[Turan]

Aren't you changing the meaning of the Quran subtly?
"in God's, the beneficent's, the mercyful's name",
is not the same as
"in God's name, the beneficent, the merciful."
Yours has changed nouns to adjectives.

Or am I suffering a translation fog?

[berber]

Turan we have 99 name of ALLAH

[Turan]

berber said:

Turan we have 99 name of ALLAH

I know that, berber. thanks

[arne]

turan said:

Aren't you changing the meaning of the Quran subtly?
"in God's, the beneficent's, the mercyful's name",
is not the same as
"in God's name, the beneficent, the merciful."
Yours has changed nouns to adjectives.

Or am I suffering a translation fog?

rahiim is an adjectiv. ar-Rahiim is a noun and one of God's names.

If have only changed the syntax to show the Arab grammar's use of genitive, i.e. that the genitive is attached to the attributes (in this case nouns).

[Turan]

Thanks, Arne, for all your patient explanations.
Another friend assured me that I was lost in a translation fog. Teehee.
He had quite a bit to say beyond that. But I realize that I had better start at the begining because I got lost. I am just going to have to get serious. Which means starting with sounds, training my ears and mouth.
Which is where this conversation began. ;D

Time for some music

[m@kansascity]

berber said:

Turan we have 99 name of ALLAH

how do you know he listening to you, if you use the wrong name?

[berber]

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

To God belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, God Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for God hath power over all things.The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." On no soul doth God Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray:) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."
Sura Al-Baqarah 284-286

[berber]

[arne]

There is a good Wikipedia article about the 99 names:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Names_of_God