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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:17:55 GMT -5
 Thought I'd bring some posts together into one thread on the Maqam Center: From MY PEOPLE INTERVIEW AL_JEZEERA:I was pleased to hear that the Maqam Centre will be opened soon. Guess our next Majicat Summit in London will take place there ;-) :)The Maqam Centre is going to be such a special place.....I cant wait to see it up and running!!  www.themaqam.com/ |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:21:07 GMT -5
And from Yusuf Mentioned Anywhere - Web, News, Etc.: :)The Maqam for Body ,Mind and Spirit........lovely....for all.....  Great find, Sue I noticed the maqam-site has been updated. Did you see the Tea For The Tillermann poster on the wall? Hope we manage to meet there soon  |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:23:38 GMT -5
Looks like a lovely place. About that Tillerman poster - that's too funny. This is obviously an artist's rendering of the planned construction; must have been the designer's inside joke, so to speak. Surely it's not really going to be up there on the real thing? Not that it would be a bad thing . . . just, you know, it seems a little out of place. oh if it's in the space were you can listen to music or performing i can imagine that poster or a peacetrain one |
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Post by sabina on Mar 18, 2011 16:26:03 GMT -5
:)I drove past on Sunday...still work in progress...........
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Post by sabina on Mar 18, 2011 16:27:21 GMT -5
suncatcher...great idea to start this thread......x
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:33:36 GMT -5
 I have a question about the pool. How do the Muslims deal with that? Do women swim? Wearing what? Would they have to have women's only swim times? Just curious, always wanting to learn how other cultures do things. I'm sure woman has different times for swimming. Great question, and Regi is right. According to The MAQAM Center website:
"Islam's holistic approach to life will be reflected at the MAQAM through the provision of a range of health and well-being facilities, including a swimming pool, sauna and spa on the ground floor for use by women and men separately." |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:34:48 GMT -5
suncatcher...great idea to start this thread......x Actually, iI got the idea from peacock. Great idea. Thank you, peacock!  |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 16:40:34 GMT -5
Peacock - I thought that was an interesting question so I went to Google. There was not a lot out there, but what I did find indicated that women either don't swim, or they swim at completely different times. Then I found this - a web site for swimwear aligned with Islamic values: www.ahiida.com/home.phpOne post I saw was from a Muslim girl who had a suit like this and said her Christian friend also wears one because she is so fair-skinned and skin cancer runs in her family.  Oh, yes, Jane! The "burqa/bikini" or, "burqini." I know a couple of Muslim women who wear these to swim at the beach or at public pools when men are present. Better than sitting on the beach and watching, or not going at all. |
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Post by JaneB on Mar 18, 2011 17:02:45 GMT -5
Oh, yes, Jane! The "burqa/bikini" or, "burqini." I know a couple of Muslim women who wear these to swim at the beach or at public pools when men are present. Better than sitting on the beach and watching, or not going at all. Absolutely! I found one article about the burqini hitting the Los Angeles market - designer burqinis! Have your friends said if they are comfortable? |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 17:24:11 GMT -5
Well, I know there are modest swimwear versions for sale, targeted toward conservative Christian women. I just wasn't sure if Muslims would find even these to be modest enough, especially in mixed company. And even the ones on the site you linked would look much different, ahem, when wet. Seems such a shame if women couldn't use the Maqam pool, or swim at all, especially since so many Muslim countries are hot ones! Maybe one of our Muslim Majicatters could weigh in on this, or perhaps it needs a new thread. Hi, peacock. You're right. As far as I know, the burqini is the only women’s swimsuit that may be modest enough for mixed company. So, women will use the MAQAM pool when it's the "women only" time and men will use it when it's the "men only" time. Then, the women don’t have to think about burqinis. They can wear regular swim suits with bike shorts or women’s swim trunks over them, since Muslim women cover from waist to knee even in front of other women. But that’s the only difference.  I've even seen non-Muslim women wear women’s swim trunks over their regular swimsuits - the trunks are loose, and good ones are made out of a material that doesn’t cling (except for the very first moment you get out of the pool – nothing’s perfect), so they give confidence to any woman who wants to swim and not bare it all. Here in the US, we Muslim women rent local public pools, cover the windows, and also enjoy "women only" swimming. The privacy is really a relief, and not a burdensome problem. Oh, and we request a female lifeguard, of course. (I once went to the YWCA during the women only time, only to find a male lifeguard  - had to sadly leave.  ) BTW, Muslim men are also supposed to cover from waist to knee, even in front of only men. Also, in Muslim countries, they sometimes have two separate public pools as well as two well-separated public beaches, one for women and one for men. Peace, ~Sun~ |
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Post by sabina on Mar 18, 2011 17:43:07 GMT -5
:)I for one applaud seperate conditions for swimming...especially when once I had to join in some training in a pool...male and female.....it was totally awful, and I think all concerned felt uncomfortable......had to make a joke out of it tho......mind you if I'd had one of those special costumes it may not have been so bad..........women only...great!Fully respect that..thankxs for the info................x
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 18:20:19 GMT -5
:)Has the word' maqam' musical connotations?...my arabic is not good...... I just asked an Arabic speaker, who said that in this context, maqam (sounds like ma - cawm, with the accent on the second syllable) is an Arabic word that means "sanctuary." It also means a "mode or key in Arabian music" (something like the key of C or F or G in western music, I think), and applies to both instruments and the voice. An interesting combination, and very Yusuf-like. I wonder how much input he had in choosing the name. Here's a youtube video of different modes/maqamat (plural of maqam) done with a focus on the voice. If you listen carefully you can hear "maqam" at the very beginning. There's also a wikipedia article on the "Arabian Maqam," which is a bit difficult to understand. One quote: "Arabic maqām (Arabic: مقام; pl. maqāmāt مقامات or maqams) is the system of melodic modes used in traditional Arabic music." Another wikipedia article mentions MAQAM, a US based production company specializing in Arabic and Middle Eastern media. Would be nice if the Maqam Center's website offered an explanation of its own. Just saying.  |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 18:25:21 GMT -5
Absolutely! I found one article about the burqini hitting the Los Angeles market - designer burqinis! Have your friends said if they are comfortable? Great find, Jane. Sorry, I never asked if they're comfortable. But I suspect they're a bit of a drag, pun intended. ;D Not to mention all the looks you'd get. Personally, I prefer renting the pool for private swimming. |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 18:28:09 GMT -5
:)I drove past on Sunday...still work in progress...........  That is so cool! You can just "drive by." Lucky you, Sabina. You've got to visit when it's done and tell us all about it, pleeease... Maybe you can even go swimming! |
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Post by JaneB on Mar 18, 2011 18:31:21 GMT -5
Sun - thank you so much for all of the information. I have learned a ton!
Jane
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 18:35:14 GMT -5
Thank you for asking, Jane. |
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peacock
Majik of Majik Member
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Post by peacock on Mar 18, 2011 21:04:27 GMT -5
Well, it's all very strange to me, this extreme modesty to the point of requiring separate facilities and areas. I'm not criticizing, mind you - just saying how different it is from anything I've ever experienced. The only reason I would have for covering up is that, at middle age, well . . . it's more about aesthetics. I have a 15 year old daughter and she sure looks awesome in a bikini, and it doesn't bother me a bit. If you have a backyard pool, can you swim together with the guys if it's just your family? I guess in some cultures water is just a bigger part of everyday recreation. I *love* swimming, love beaches. Love spending time with my family, together, at the pool or beach - or at a hotel pool, water park, etc. But what would be hard for me to give up probably doesn't weigh that heavily for someone else, I know. Recently we went to Great Wolf Lodge, which is an indoor water park attached to a hotel - they're all over the U.S. and a great winter treat. I saw a few Muslim women all wrapped up, sitting with their family's "stuff" reading books while the men and the kids played, and I just thought that was so sad. But again, that's just my perception. Maybe the women didn't mind. I sure would have. |
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Post by Monty Python on Mar 18, 2011 21:24:29 GMT -5
Would be nice if the Maqam Center's website offered an explanation of its own. Just saying. There's not much, but I found this on themaqam.com: Focusing on the noble figure of Abraham and his position as 'the Father of the Prophets', the MAQAM Centre will demonstrate the real spirit of Islam, which is built on belief in one God, and respect for all His prophets and creation. The name of the Centre is inspired by the MAQAM where Prophet Abraham stood while building the first House of God in Makkah. |
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Post by ilovemycat on Mar 18, 2011 21:44:11 GMT -5
Sun - the Arabic music you posted is absolutely beautiful. It made me so emotional for some reason.
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 18, 2011 23:58:01 GMT -5
Would be nice if the Maqam Center's website offered an explanation of its own. Just saying. There's not much, but I found this on themaqam.com: Focusing on the noble figure of Abraham and his position as 'the Father of the Prophets', the MAQAM Centre will demonstrate the real spirit of Islam, which is built on belief in one God, and respect for all His prophets and creation. The name of the Centre is inspired by the MAQAM where Prophet Abraham stood while building the first House of God in Makkah.Oh, thank you, Monty! And my apologies to the Maqam Center for missing this. BTW, the "Maqam Ibrahim" is called the "Station of Abraham" in English. According to The Ministry of Hajj of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia:In order to complete the upper part of the walls of the Kaaba, Ibrahim stood upon a large stone block which he moved along when each section was completed. When the Kaaba was finished, the large stone block was left outside the Kaaba, close to the eastern wall of the sanctuary. It became known as the Maqam Ibrahim (the station of Ibrahim [Abraham]). Today, the Maqam Ibrahim, with the stone within, is located in front of the door of the Kaaba. The boulder is about 2 x 3 feet. Where it stands today is the place where Ibrahim offered up his prayers. |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 19, 2011 0:04:02 GMT -5
Sun - the Arabic music you posted is absolutely beautiful. It made me so emotional for some reason. Thank you, ilovemycat. I think it's beautiful, too. It was explained to me that the different modes of music and voice were created to express a vast range of human emotions. Seems they've succeeded to at least some extent. All this reminds me of how much there is to learn about one another in this world, and the Maqam Center sounds like a nice place to do some of that learning. I hope to visit it one day. |
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Post by sabina on Mar 19, 2011 1:31:18 GMT -5
:)I drove past on Sunday...still work in progress........... That is so cool! You can just "drive by." Lucky you, Sabina. You've got to visit when it's done and tell us all about it, pleeease... Maybe you can even go swimming! :)LOL I am only about an hour by car or train from London and have people close that live there......so I am lucky but even so can only see myself as an infrequent visitor ......... One of the reasons I am so very into this Centre is that when I was in late teens myself and several others from different communities set up a multi cultural Youth Action Group which has subsequently grown ino a hub of community relations ,lots of activities peops of all religions using the centre together........we were all one hindu,christian ,all denominations,black white and shades between...any cultural background..this is where I first saw myself and my values through others eyes..where I began my journey really..........and Cat..then Peace studies.blah blah........ So although the Maqam is under a different umbrella the idea is similar...on a grander scale of course............I will most certainly be visiting and will most certainly share any experiences with you guys..............have I got time between now and Berlin YYYaaaYYY to go on a Report writing course? ?lol I know I tend to speak all in a rush but I can write well formally.....so some stilted reports? or just the usuall gush?!!any pointers from you writers out there?Post on Majotter if you have any preference .. |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 19, 2011 4:46:27 GMT -5
Well, it's all very strange to me, this extreme modesty to the point of requiring separate facilities and areas. I'm not criticizing, mind you - just saying how different it is from anything I've ever experienced. The only reason I would have for covering up is that, at middle age, well . . . it's more about aesthetics. I have a 15 year old daughter and she sure looks awesome in a bikini, and it doesn't bother me a bit. If you have a backyard pool, can you swim together with the guys if it's just your family? I guess in some cultures water is just a bigger part of everyday recreation. I *love* swimming, love beaches. Love spending time with my family, together, at the pool or beach - or at a hotel pool, water park, etc. But what would be hard for me to give up probably doesn't weigh that heavily for someone else, I know. Recently we went to Great Wolf Lodge, which is an indoor water park attached to a hotel - they're all over the U.S. and a great winter treat. I saw a few Muslim women all wrapped up, sitting with their family's "stuff" reading books while the men and the kids played, and I just thought that was so sad. But again, that's just my perception. Maybe the women didn't mind. I sure would have. Thank you for your thoughts, peacock. I have full respect and appreciation for your opinions, and found that they gave me a lot to reflect on. So, my response is a bit long, and I apologize for that. And I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to say that my way of thinking is the only “right“ way; everyone has a right to his or her own opinions, of course. So, in my opinion, it's not “strange” or “extreme” to have separate exercise facilities for men and women. For instance, the YWCA that I went to when I was a Christian had many activities for women only, including swimming (although they did use male lifeguards at times). And the fact that both YMCAs (Young Men’s Christian Associations) and YWCAs (Young Women’s Christian Associations) were established in this country indicates to me that Christians also once recognized the validity of having some things separated by gender. We also have men’s soccer and women’s soccer, men’s basketball and women’s basketball, and so on. And we still have men’s and women’s bathrooms, and not just gender-neutral ones. I would say all this is normal, not strange or extreme. An even better example is Curves. Curves is the largest fitness franchise in the world, has nearly 10,000 locations in over 85 countries, and is designed for women only. It’s clear that a lot of women, regardless of religion, appreciate the freedom to exercise without men around. It’s so comfortable, and it gives women a chance to form friendships and to discuss women’s stuff. It’s not “strange.” It’s not “extreme.” It’s nice! As for the Muslim women you saw at the water park, they were probably more than happy to let their husbands take a turn babysitting the kids; it gave the women a chance to read, which is not always possible for busy moms; and they got to sit together and enjoy each other’s company. Who knows, maybe they’re even like me, and would rather swim for exercise in a private pool than splash around at a swim park. I don’t think you need to feel sorry for them, though I thank you for expressing your concern. I guess that a lot of Westerners don’t know this, but Muslim women pursue higher education and careers, laugh, sing, dance, exercise, have parties, dress up, wear makeup, dress down, wear jeans, go to the beach, go camping, and have just as much fun as anyone else. Really! But we do it all within certain healthy constraints. And yes, we can swim in our backyard pools with the guys in our family – husbands, sons, brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers. And to us, just because a teenage girl looks awesome in a bikini, it doesn’t mean that it’s good to show her to the whole world. We keep our money, gold, and other valuables safe, so why not our children? I mean, just think of all the creepy people in the world. Why show them too much of our kids? So, I don’t see anything “strange” or “extreme” in the Maqam Center having separate swim times for men and women, nor in Curves being for women only, nor in dressing modestly. But again, to each her own. Peace, ~Sun~ |
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Post by suncatcher on Mar 19, 2011 4:56:59 GMT -5
:)LOL I am only about an hour by car or train from London and have people close that live there......so I am lucky but even so can only see myself as an infrequent visitor ......... One of the reasons I am so very into this Centre is that when I was in late teens myself and several others from different communities set up a multi cultural Youth Action Group which has subsequently grown ino a hub of community relations ,lots of activities peops of all religions using the centre together........we were all one hindu,christian ,all denominations,black white and shades between...any cultural background..this is where I first saw myself and my values through others eyes..where I began my journey really..........and Cat..then Peace studies.blah blah........ So although the Maqam is under a different umbrella the idea is similar...on a grander scale of course............I will most certainly be visiting and will most certainly share any experiences with you guys..............have I got time between now and Berlin YYYaaaYYY to go on a Report writing course? ?lol I know I tend to speak all in a rush but I can write well formally.....so some stilted reports? or just the usuall gush?!!any pointers from you writers out there?Post on Majotter if you have any preference .. What a wonderful story, Sabina. And your experience setting up a multicultural Youth Action Group is simply awe-inspiring. Wow! So you can really relate to what Yusuf is doing with the Maqam Center. Oh, and you can write anyway you like - it's all good - formal, rushed, gushed - I love it all. Pointers? Just keep writing from the heart. Peace, ~Sun~ |
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Post by Sir Lorry Load on Mar 19, 2011 10:19:14 GMT -5
What a wonderful story, Sabina. And your experience setting up a multicultural Youth Action Group is simply awe-inspiring. Wow! So you can really relate to what Yusuf is doing with the Maqam Center. Oh, and you can write anyway you like - it's all good - formal, rushed, gushed - I love it all. Pointers? Just keep writing from the heart. Peace, ~Sun~ "Here, here", Sun, on what you expressed to Sabina about "writing from the heart", and Sabina: Yours really was an inspiring story, thank you! And "thank you" to you as well, Sun, for your fantastic efforts in continually searching out and posting interesting and informative accounts and photos relating to both Yusuf-related topics and specific information on a variety of subjects (such as the wealth of information that you have provided on this thread). You also, and so thoughtfully, take the time to locate pertinent data and illustrations that directly tie into the posts that we fellow Majicatters compose. For instance, I'll never forget the time that you researched the 'net and actually found, utilizing your finely honed research skills, a depiction of a genuine 'Brass Figlagee with Bronze Oakleaf Palm' that I had referenced! ;D Oh, and who recently tracked down George/Daddy-o's "Spicy Pickled Garlic"? Hmmm?  As my nephew Patrick loves to say: "Awesome!" -Bud |
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Post by JaneB on Mar 19, 2011 10:52:51 GMT -5
Sun, I want to echo Bud's thanks to you. You have taken a lot of your precious time to consolidate some threads, find interesting sites to post for us, and educate us on some of the many Muslim customs and beliefs. I especially enjoyed and appreciated your points on customs of modesty in the non-Muslim world. I had many of the same thoughts last night, but you articulated them for us beautifully. Even though I do not choose to dress the same as Muslim women, and I see no problem with women wearing swimsuits at the beach or shorts on a hot day, as I stated in a now-closed thread, I find it difficult to argue against modesty.
Thank you again, Sun.
Jane
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peacock
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Post by peacock on Mar 19, 2011 22:08:45 GMT -5
I want to make clear that what I said was, as I already stated, not a judgment in any way - and when I said "strange" or "extreme" I only meant strange to ME, as in, out of my range of experience.
Funny I feel this way, after having attended an all-girl high school. Oh well.
Thanks for your response.
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Post by JaneB on Mar 19, 2011 22:53:12 GMT -5
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Post by ilovemycat on Mar 19, 2011 22:58:49 GMT -5
That is an AMAZING idea Jane!!!!!!!! Oh that would be sooooooo awesome to have a Majicat tile there! And I would like to thank Sun too for her always informative postings Peacock it's okay if you don't agree with everyone's customs - I find it hard to understand too and I married into a Muslim family...so we learn as we go. And that to me is what makes life interesting and spicy! |
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peacock
Majik of Majik Member
Posts: 505
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Post by peacock on Mar 19, 2011 23:58:56 GMT -5
Great idea, and very appropriate.
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- had to sadly leave. 
)
That is so cool! You can just "drive by." Lucky you, Sabina. 
